100: Episode 100
It's a landmark episode! Somehow, this is the 100th episode of Local Zero. A big thanks to our listeners, guests, and supporters, without whom we definitely would not have made it to three figures.
One last time, we're joined by our co-host Becky, who has some news to share about her new adventure.
The team mull over their highlights since starting the pod in 2021, and what the next 100 episodes might look like!
Relevant links:
https://thegreatplantbasedcon.com
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
[music flourish]
Matt: Local Zero is brought to you by the University of Strathclyde, home of the Strathclyde Institute for Sustainable Communities.
Matt: Hello and welcome to Local Zero.
Becky: That was horrible. It
Matt: is a landmark episode today, and I'm not quite sure how it's happened, but somehow this is our 100th episode. Straight off the bat, I would like to thank our listeners, without whom we definitely would not have made it to three figures. Today is a very special episode for another reason entirely, because one last time we are joined by our co host and co founder, Becky Ford, before she heads off into the sunset on an exciting new adventure, which we're going to hear all about today.
Matt: Becky, do you want to share your news with us?
Becky: Thanks, Matt. It's amazing to be back for our 100th episode. Um, and yes, my big news. Is that I've come back to uni. I'm a student again. Um, I'm sure we're going to talk a little bit more about that later in the episode. Um, and we're also going to spend some time looking at the huge range of conversations that local zero has had over the years.
Becky: And how these can and should be used by people, whether that's individuals, communities, or cities, who want to deliver on climate action.
Fraser: And to further mark the occasion, the production team have asked each of us to pick one, just one highlight over those 100 episodes, which, trust me, was no easy task.
Matt: Becky, it's an absolute pleasure to have you back, uh, Fraser, ditto, quite seem to have got rid of you or I just yet, um, but no, it's great here, 100 episodes, how does it feel?
Becky: Feels insane, like, I think back to when we actually started and we were all in lockdown and I was also remembering our very first episode and how awkward it all felt and how scripted we were and how many takes we had to do on things.
Becky: Um, and now it's so lovely to just get back on the pod and to, you know, to connect again and to be able to have these really exciting conversations.
Fraser: It feels like more to me. I am sick of the sight of all of you. At least 200.
Matt: Maybe three. More in a good way, Ray Fraser or not. I mean, it feels, I was really surprised.
Matt: It's
Fraser: been four years. Yeah, I think when you put it in that, in that context, that perspective, we started in the run up to COP26 in Glasgow and that was all we had in mind for the podcast at the time was to bring a bit of a Glasgow sort of local perspective into international climate discussions and climate action that we've gone on for so long since then.
Fraser: With so much insight, covering so much ground, I think is a really, really quite a remarkable thing. How many prime ministers
Matt: have we had in the time this pod's been going? I mean, there's been a little bit of longevity, and as you say, we set off to do quite a small and important yet relatively small thing.
Matt: Um, here we are sort of bumbling along. We've been set the inglorious task of identifying, you know, one, two, maybe even three highlights from, uh, you know, from way back. But what, what's nice, maybe if we just bring it right up to the present day, we put out on LinkedIn, uh, a bit of a patting our own backs, basically 100 episodes.
Matt: What was really nice with some of the responses we got back had some really lovely responses, Alex Howard, UKPN, long time listener, first time poster, really enjoy this podcast, not least for presenting a people first perspective on the energy transition, well done Local Zero for the 100 episodes, and we had a couple of other really nice points from Vicky Mustard, who I know from the MBA we do at Strathclyde, I really enjoyed listening to this podcast, it definitely gets me thinking, thank you. But I wanted to put you two on the spot, Any testimony that you've maybe received over the past four years, anything stick in the mind where somebody's maybe said something or rather given you that kind of warm, fuzzy feeling inside.
Matt: Maybe we're not wasting our time here. This has been a valuable use of four years.
Fraser: I have a strange one and it's one of the only claims I think I have to like a minor celebrity moment from the podcast, was I was at the scottish Renewables grid conference earlier, earlier this year at Strathclyde and someone sitting in the row in front of me recognized my voice from the podcast when I was wittering away at whoever was sitting next to me and we're gushing about how much they enjoy the podcast and how useful they find it.
Fraser: Particularly those kind of deep dives where we, where we really get into a specific, a specific issue. Go on a real rant. Is that the ones they're like? That's the ones. Yeah. Specifically said more Fraser, more of the times is looking for, but that was a really nice moment.
Becky: So my mom's been listening to the podcast from the outset, uh, I'm assuming because I've been on it, but I'm assuming that's what got her into the podcast, but we often have conversations about what, you know, the actual topic.
Becky: So it's, it's really kind of reached this, the sorts of things we're talking about has reached my mom who would not usually be somebody that's in this world of people that we tend to interact with. And so for me, I think if we are talking about some of these topics and let's not be about the bush, some of the topics we get into are quite complex, like you could take them in very, like through a very academic lens, it's quite complex topics.
Becky: But I think that we're having conversations about them in a way that somebody that doesn't necessarily work in this space just gets. And I feel like what, for me, the pod's really done as is that it's helped take some of these issues and open up the dialogue to a, to a wider group in a very, I want to say unbiased way.
Becky: Obviously we have that bias that we think local climate action is a good thing, but you know, we're not selling anything behind it. So I feel like that's, that's been really powerful.
Matt: It would be lovely to be a fly on the wall and some of the conversations that have maybe spun out of, you know, somebody listening to this and if there's anybody listening, you know, to, to listeners, if, if there are examples of testimony, things that have, have maybe kicked on or happened after you've listened, please let us know.
Matt: Cause we're, we're, we're really keen to hear, I'll maybe give you one example that I'm, um, I really enjoyed. Uh, over the the summer, not that long ago, a couple of months ago, I met my, uh, parents neighbor for the first time that they moved in. And I'd heard sort of in passing from my dad that the next door neighbor listened to the pod and we ended up having a drinks thing that late that evening managed to meet him.
Matt: And the conversations we had sort of episode after episode, theme after theme, and it goes back to what you're saying, Becky, is it kind of structures something else that happens after that. And, um, that was a, that was a nice feeling and really appreciated the, the warm words, but, um, obviously Becky, I mean, it's a great pop, but not so great that we're losing you somewhere else.
Matt: And I'm sure listeners and Fraser and I would be fascinated to hear what the future holds for you next. So why are you going back to uni? Why are you doing it all over again? And for listeners. Becky holds a PhD, right? I mean, more than that, she was a very, is, was a very esteemed academic. So what, what's going on?
Becky: Well, so Matt, I will say, first of all, I haven't left the space completely before, uh, maybe some people will look at that. So I still am doing pieces of work. Uh, I work, I still get to work with Fraser. I don't know if that's a good thing or a terrible thing. Until the day you retire,
Fraser: Becky.
Becky: Um, so I'm still doing work, uh, in, in the energy sphere, mostly in the kind of community and stakeholder engagement and how we do better research with, with people.
Becky: So I'm still very much working in that space. Um, but I have gone back to university. And I am studying nutritional therapy. So a big step away from what I've done before in my life, people that know me, and I suspect some people that listen to the pod when, when they hear me say that, they're like, Oh, that makes so much sense.
Becky: Cause I've struggled over the years, um, with, with my health from a nutritional perspective, and I've just become. I would say in the last five years, so interested in, in how food and health interacts and food, human health and planetary health as well. Cause I think that forms a big part of the conversation.
Becky: And I was just, I felt like I was lacking. The knowledge to be able to have that conversation properly, and I needed to go back and better understand. And so, so I'm doing a part time degree, like full on bachelor's degree. It's, uh, it's very interesting being a student again, I have to say, I'm absolutely loving it.
Becky: I love that I get to sit in a deck chair and read my textbooks and dig into papers and actually spend some time, you know, learning and absorbing new material.
Matt: No, that's, that's really interesting. I mean, and obviously it's important for listeners to know we've covered off, well, not that nexus, the sort of, I really liked that sort of personal nutritional health and the planetary health.
Matt: I think that's a really important one, but we have covered off food and waste. In fact, the last episode we did was around reducing food waste in the home. A few episodes before that was about decarbonizing agriculture, the human and personal health and the planetary health. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I know you've always been good at spotting the gap, but.
Matt: They have it. It's a biggie.
Becky: I think these things really into play because, you know, I'm so early on in the degree, right? But I'm still learning a lot about whether you're talking about food from from animal sources or from plant sources. What goes into that is so important. So soil health determines the levels of nutrients in our plants, how our animals are housed and fed determines the levels of nutrients in those animals and how that feeds back into to us. And of course that comes back to these notions of regenerative and sustainable agriculture and how animals are being raised. Are they grass fed animals? Are they grain fed? What are those conditions? What are we doing to our soil? I mean, the, the levels of depletion that, that we've seen over the last few decades is, is staggering because of how, how things are being done.
Becky: And I know that there's a lot of exciting work in this space, but even, you know, you could look at it from a carbon or, or a methane or some people choose to, you could look at it through a number of perspectives, but I think actually taking that broader systems perspective and looking at kind of the ecology of the land and how that interplays with our food and then with human health.
Becky: I think that's going to be absolutely fascinating.
Fraser: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I, I think we can all agree as well, completely admire going back to first year level and learning about stuff. I miss learning at that level so, so much. I also had a little chuckle to myself at the idea of a first year university student learning about nutrition, thinking about my own nutrition first year in university, which I survived almost exclusively on pasta and buck fast.
Fraser: I think it's a, it's an interesting time to be learning about it. Matt, can you remember back to your undergrad days? They weren't so long ago.
Matt: Yeah, nutrition wasn't top of the list, I have to say. But I mean, Becky, this, this, this idea of Planetary health, supporting personal health. You know, there's been reading the, um, Isabella trees book with, with, uh, Charlie Boyle, I hope I've got the name, right.
Matt: Uh, the, the wilding, the sort of textbook for rewild and restoring nature. Really interesting book, very different to the previous one. Cause it's, it's. It much more like a textbook or a handbook, but there's certain points in there that talk to current practices in terms of agriculture. You know, there's only so many harvests left left in the soil if we continue doing it in the way that we are.
Matt: And then you kind of think going back to sitting at the dinner table and what you're eating, what, what that type of harvest is generating, you know, whether it be pesticides, fertilizers, GM, whatever it is that's kind of putting the food on the table and say, well, okay, well, what's that doing to my own personal health?
Matt: So. I hope we can get you back on in a few months when you've, when you've worked it all out and you've got a bestseller book on this particular subject and you're delivering all the lectures, which is absolutely going to be
Becky: happening. Well, I've got four and a half years to go, but yeah.
Matt: No, but it would be really interesting because I think Fraser points out when you get, well, it's not just, you know, I'm in academia. Fraser's uh, in consultancy, but you do stop learning a little bit. I mean, I work at the university. The last time I picked up a book and sat down, actually gobbled it up at work. I forgotten. So Godspeed and good luck to you for that.
Matt: Our homework was to pick just one highlight. From a producer. I think we've completely thrown that out the window already, but I wonder Fraser, would you like to, to begin if, if you had to pick one highlight the last hundred episodes, where would you start?
Fraser: So I took the homework assignment. I picked one.
Fraser: And then I picked another one that was in the same theme and then I picked another one that was in the same theme. Um, so I, for me, I think I'll start with a theme before we get to the episode. Yeah. For me, the theme and the episodes that have always excited me most and that have always left me feeling energized and like I want to go out and do something are the episodes where we really get into it with leaders in the community, community organisations who are transforming things in their own local areas who are.
Fraser: often wrestling with very complex issues and very highly politicized issues and are taking the onus to To try and improve things in the in the places that they live for the people that that live in them. So I think I can narrow it down to two episodes starting with the earliest first There was the local heroes episode that we did Uh, which I got to I was very fortunate to get to go out on location in the south side of glasgow uh with South Seeds and with the Pollock Shields Trust with Bill Fraser and Lucy Gilly, uh, where they had participated in Glasgow Community Energy, but they're also doing lots of local community, uh, growing, local community sort of climate education.
Fraser: Um, these are people who have, you know, the sort of stalwarts in their, in their local areas who are well known, well liked, well respected, well trusted, who have made it essentially their life's work to, to improve the area and. With that, you know, with that climate, climate lens to it, it's that was a very enjoyable episode.
Fraser: We got to hear about all the work that was going on in the community with lots of different members and groups within that community. And I thought just a really, really powerful example of. It's not solely about the things that you buy and the choices that you make individually, um, but how you interact with people around you is a very, very powerful tool for, for local climate action.
Becky: I loved that episode. I thought that episode was absolutely, and I think that actually I wasn't involved in that episode, but I absolutely loved it. I loved listening to it. I thought it really spoke to me.
Matt: My memory of it is that it was In between waves of covid i might be wrong here it was covid like around that time yeah and i seem to remember that you met them outside and did it outside and what i do recall from that is that was one of the first episodes where you really kind of cough you know that the ambience shall we say of of the outdoors which really set the kind of i think the background tone to the discussion which was about.
Matt: You know, green and sustainable action and climb action. So I enjoyed that, but also really enjoyed how people would desperate, I think, to have those conversations in a safe space. So yeah, well done you. And I know you've always liked roaming around and doing things on the hoof. And it's, I think it's something that we, we're keen to do more of going forward.
Fraser: Definitely, definitely. Yeah, we recorded it at the Bowling Green in Pollock Shields, which is the hub of the Pollock Shields Trust, and from which you can see Glasgow Community Energy's solar installation on the local school. One of the things that I liked most about that, about the sort of case study, was they were running, and this isn't unique here, but it was one of the first times we'd spotlighted it.
Fraser: was they were running a local community growing program as a means to resolving or to supporting people with, with mental health. So anyone could come down and at one point doctors were prescribing go down to the, to the local allotment, learn a little bit about climate as you're doing it, but there's a big social dimension to it as well.
Fraser: Just a really, really nice potent example of bringing together real issues with a, with a climate lens at that local level. The second example on the kind of local climate theme was the Right Community Action episode, episode 75, with Naomi Luda Thompson, um, who was helping sort of communities, people within communities who supported new renewable projects or opposed new fossil fuel projects such as the Cumbria coal mine, supporting community organisations and community members.
Fraser: to have conversations about new developments in their area, whether with developers, whether with politicians, um, and to really stand up for what they felt were their community's best interest. We heard within that practical, tangible things that people can do because it can be quite a daunting thing. If there's a lot of, for instance, you've got new pylons being built or a new wind farm being built in your local area, there's often very organized and very vocal opposition to those things happening.
Fraser: So it can be quite a daunting prospect for an individual who thinks, well, actually we need this stuff. I support this stuff. I support climate action. I support the net zero air quotes mission. It can be quite a daunting prospect. And I think Naomi in that conversation and the work that writes community action.
Fraser: It really helped provide some sort of practical tools for people who wanted to voice that perspective and who wanted to fight their corner as it were, um, to, to get things, to get things moving and to get things into action. And I just thought that for me, more than probably any other episode, I left feeling.
Fraser: Massively like, you know what, we can do something about this. We, we have power, even if it's just the power to turn up at a town hall and voice your perspective and have that conversation. I thought that was such a, such an exciting episode.
Matt: And I really like that you're tying the, you know, these two.
Matt: Items, these episodes together as a theme, Becky, I think you've also ripped up the homework and gone with your own flavor too. So what, what would you highlight as your, some of your, your favorites? Yeah.
Becky: And I also, I couldn't choose just one and, uh, like Fraser for me, that was definitely a theme coming through, uh, from, from the episodes that I looked back and really, really enjoyed.
Becky: And I did have more on my list and I won't, I won't share all of the ones on my list, but I'll just kind of share a flavor. But the theme was really where it, where it felt to me, like what we were doing was really connected in with something bigger than just local zero. Like there were certain episodes where I really, really felt that.
Becky: Um, and so, I mean, I can't not mention the cop episodes. Uh, and there they were in the twenties, 20 something, definitely 27, 28, 29, maybe a few others around the
Matt: sessions, the cop
Becky: sessions. Um, and some of the followup, we did a great, uh, post. Cop dissection with Dave Ray as well, which I really enjoyed. But I really loved those episodes because, not for like the specific content perhaps of a, of a single episode, but the fact that we were recording them in and around this huge, um, bubble of climate action where we saw different people coming together.
Becky: in different ways, you know, whether you're looking at kind of the climate, uh, the climate marches that we, that we profiled. I know Fraser, you had a particular segment on that, um, as well, really from that kind of climate justice perspective. Um, but also matt, we, we did one in, uh, in the chambers in Glasgow city council, and that was, that was fantastic as well.
Becky: And so I don't know that these were all like individual episodes, but we, we grouped them together and we, we cut them together. But to me, they were just really, really great because it was local zero as part of something bigger. And that's, that's really the other episode that I'll highlight as well, which was episode 64.
Becky: Um, Matt, you weren't there for that one, but Fraser and I did a local zero live at one of the energy rev summits. And again, just, it felt there was so much energy in the room because it was part of this two day event with you know, hundreds of people coming together, I'm really focusing in on local and community action.
Becky: And so both of those just, I felt so energized, uh, in the conversations that we had.
Matt: But by bringing people together, I mean, I just also at this point note that three of the four kind of favorite episodes didn't actually have me hosting them, but that's fine. Don't, don't worry about that. We'll move right on.
Matt: Um, the, the, the cop, the cop sessions. So, yeah, I mean, for those. I'm guessing most listeners weren't there or maybe most of us haven't been to cop. We were very privileged for the university to support us to go there. And it was just complete chaos, right? It was, it was just this melee of people and events.
Matt: And I mean, I'm really glad. We went, I'm not sure I'm that desperate to go to another one. Um, but I suspect every one is different. Um, but, but what you did, it was a bit like sort of being at a buffet. You kind of just bouncing from one treat to the next and you didn't quite know what was going to happen.
Matt: My, my, my only regret, um, I think is that, I mean, I don't know if you remember this Becky, but I regret on two counts, um, one that we didn't get him and one that I approached him, but we, you and I were chatting, having lunch. And behind us, we noticed John Prescott was sitting there who the listeners, um, was deputy prime minister of the labor government under Blair, but also one of the key architects of the Kyoto protocol, which was the precursor to the Paris agreement and really kind of set that whole train in motion.
Matt: Um, and I think Becky and I have sort of had a little chat. I was like, right, I've, I've got to go over and ask him, you know, have got my mic in my hand. I was like, we got to get him. But I hadn't recalled that just a few weeks previously, John had had a poor turn of health, um, and was, was not well, but I went over to him to ask him forgetting this.
Matt: And sadly, it was quite clear when we met him that he wasn't able to, but if only we had been able to get him and to, to hear a little bit more about what being on the in inner circle is about crafting these agreements. But it was just like that. You're bouncing from place to place, seeing incredible people, you know, sort of John Kerry was walking past you or, uh, this and that, but yeah, I, I love that idea of having that energy there. And I think the energy rev live events that you organize in London were an excellent example of that getting, bringing everybody together.
Fraser: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think cop was, it was a lot of fun and I agree, Matt.
Fraser: I don't know that it was so much, it was just. overload at that point. It took us all about three months to recover from it.
Fraser: Energy rev Live was, I think all the live episodes, if we, if we could have, they just have a bit of a different feel about them, a bit of a different zip to them.
Matt: And I think there's a couple of plans for some more going forward and maybe talk about those towards the back end.
Matt: Um, I've kind of got sort of thematic highlight as well, which was some of the episodes we did in the middle of last year, I think we'd sat down and said, look, we've done a lot on energy, which makes a lot of sense because we were for a long time funded through energy rev, which was all about sort of smart local energy systems.
Matt: And I think we were a bit energy-out. And we were also asking ourselves a question as hosts, but also of our audience could we expand into different territories? I remember sitting down and coming up with some ideas, uh, like, right, what themes? We'll sort of threw them into the pot, right? Which people?
Matt: And there were three episodes there were many more I might add, but the three episodes, which I think drew us as hosts out of our comfort zone and put us almost in the seat as an audience, sort of lay audience member. Because we weren't expert in these areas by any stretch. But they also overlapped with, with my own personal interests.
Matt: I'm sure yours too. It was the, uh, water, water, everywhere episode from Oceana. And it was around about, I mean, look, the issue with water hasn't gone away. It ain't going away for a long time. And having just, I say, just come back a few months ago, but I was in France this summer, you know, and I was there with the kids swimming in the rivers in central France, and it was just what everybody did.
Matt: Because they were clean enough and you put your goggles on and you see all the fish underneath the water and you know, it's incredible not something you can easily do here. Okay, not in the same way. And Hugo's energies, Vim's vigor about, you know, wanting to solve this issue alongside other key commentators like Fergal Sharkey and others and other, you know, incredibly important organisations like Surface Against Sewage.
Matt: And I loved his point. I hope I'm not. Uh, misquoting him, but it's that old adage of you got to measure it to fix it. And you know the um, you know, one of the key issues about data. We need the data We need to understand how bad the water quality is and when so I was really taken with that episode and hugo as a sort of Professional activist if I hope he won't scold me for saying that but you know, he is incredibly professional Very polished very passionate, but has a sort of that energy that activist energy there So I was really taken with that. The second was Kate Bradbury's episode on how can our gardens protect the environment?
Matt: Greener gardens. Kate's done loads of stuff for, for gardeners world. She's written countless books, podcasts, TV. And what I loved about that is that she took it down to the window box. She said, you just need a windowsill and you can start making a positive difference. And I think it also then starts.
Matt: Extending beyond that, I said, well, even if you don't have, you know, a suitable sort of space for a window box, there are allotments, there are community gardens, there's potentially volunteering opportunities, but she really put a spotlight on our gardens. And I remember that again, taking away the key line from that is if you can't see green.
Matt: You're doing it wrong, you know, if it's just paving and tarmac and gravel. And the last one was again way off the the beaten track decarbonizing the uk music industry So we had lewis jameson from music declares emergency. We also had carly mclachlan and christopher jones from the tindal A center for climate change research at Manchester, some of the points that came up about the carbon footprint of live music, and also just some of the silly, silly rules that exist.
Matt: So I remember again, one of the things that sticks in my mind is Lewis talking about bands touring in the U S and there were certain stipulations in their contract that they couldn't do. Another venue like next door or even in the town next door, because it would impact upon ticket sales. And I just was like, just my brain just exploded about every time I've gone to a gig.
Matt: Now I'm kind of looking at it in a different light and I thought, right, that's the power of the pod is puts things in a different light, makes you ask different questions. I really, really enjoyed, enjoyed that. So it took me thoroughly out of my comfort zone.
Becky: Yeah, that three great episodes. Um, I love the, from the water to water everywhere, he came back to the point about data, which I love that you love data maps.
Becky: Um, I really took away from that one around our role as citizens. To try and create change. Cause I think interesting, especially looking at that compared to the garden episode, what I really took away from the, from the garden episode was the power that I, as an individual have to make change in my own environment.
Becky: Whereas the water, water everywhere episode made me feel that my power was as a citizen rather than somebody that could make direct change on my own. And I think that that's another interesting thing that come through across those different episodes for me. And I know we'll come on to this, but some of them, some of the episodes looking across the catalog that we've done really speak to that.
Becky: Individual action. I was also thinking about the one you did Fraser. Um, it was the little vignette you did was, was it with Brenda about the, um using car parking spaces. Yeah. The park. So that one's, I mean, I couldn't claim that as one of my standout moments. Cause obviously I had nothing to do with that.
Becky: That was all you, there is, there was some episodes that when I either was involved in recording them or listen to them afterwards really made me think. There is a lot that I can do as an individual. And then there have been other episodes, which I found really interesting, but I've almost left me feeling a little bit paralyzed in terms of what can I do and it feels like really what I can do is try and use my civic voice.
Matt: So so there's something really important to pick here and actually speaks to a piece I was just reading in the Guardian at lunch by Bill Mckibben talking about. Climate breakdown, societal breakdown.
Matt: But there was a key point in this, which I've heard, which you relate to. And I've also heard leveled at some of the defense mechanisms from big business, like oil and gas about hyper individualization or emphasizing the hyper individual and often talk about sort of atomization of it, of individual households, but that we need to.
Matt: In order to get stuff done we need to do it ourselves, as individuals, as, as, or even close knit, very small social networks, like the family, okay? And we can't, right? You cannot solve the climate, as Bill McKibben says, you can't solve the climate crisis one Tesla at a time. So I think I draw that out of this.
Matt: Take the case of Kate's episode on gardens. Yes, we can do a lot as individuals, but ultimately you hit a brick wall and a glass ceiling, and you've, you've then got to, you've got to change track. I am not diluting the importance of individual action, and that can take many forms, it's not just about what we do but how we vote and how we invest, but we have to then embrace others and get, and work together towards a common shared goal.
Matt: Without that, my view, we're completely stuffed.
Fraser: I think that's why it's so important, and I would, I would say for just about every episode we've pulled out, there is some interaction between what you can do, listener, individual, citizen, and how that interacts with the social and with the political as well.
Fraser: So Becky, when you talk about their, your role as a citizen versus your role as an individual or as a consumer, I think that's the, that's the most potent framing. In my mind, because climate action, there are changes that you can make, and I'm a big believer where it's feasible and where you have the means and whatever to do so in leading by example, but having those conversations organizing where you have the capacity to do so, where you're, you're sort of confident to do so working within your community, if that's if that's something that's, that's open to you locally.
Fraser: I think these, it doesn't have to be one or the other. And I've, I've always found myself frustrated with the conversation of, is it individual action or is it system change? Well, it's, it's both actually. And if we start to sort of treat ourselves as, as citizens who live within social networks, live within communities, live within something bigger, then I think it's, That's the sweet spot of when you can start to, to mobilize for the level of change that we ultimately need to, to deal with this.
Fraser: So it doesn't take away from individual action. It's important. So long as in my mind, it's placed within the wider sort of social citizen. And as you say, Becky, civic side of it as well.
Becky: But here's, here's where I struggle a little bit. Um, so when it comes to collective action, also, you know, my role as a citizen, there are certain things that are easier for me to do than, than others.
Becky: Right. So on some of the easier side is, is, uh, I guess elements of the advocacy, right. Writing letters, getting in touch with our MP, some of the things that are suggested to do. Uh, but actually, I feel like there's another layer in there, which is citizens working, and Fraser, you talked about working in community groups with communities, or even working with local authorities.
Becky: So Newquay City Council is trying to convene a climate action steering group at the moment to do climate action in Newquay. And two things are very present in my mind at the moment, obviously despite the fact that I have decided to, you know, go back to university, I desperately want to get involved with this group because I think there's some really exciting, tangible stuff here.
Becky: But two things concern me. One is that the expectation is that all of my time to participate in this is completely voluntary and, you know, I, I have very little time. And so it's very hard to, to do more and more and more in a voluntary capacity where, you know, where you don't see as much return. And so I'm not necessarily talking about financial term, but if I, for example, if I do stuff in my garden, I get a direct benefit from that.
Becky: It's harder sometimes to justify those times, especially when it's not just justifying it to yourself, but to other people that rely and depend on you. But the second thing is that I feel like looking back across some of our episodes, I can kind of pull out not a to do list, but like, here are some of the things that as an individual I could do.
Becky: If we're talking about the context of working with a group of people in my local area, I don't know that I necessarily have that same knowledge. And I feel that, that knowledge of what can I do as a citizen working with other citizens in my local area, that's harder.
Fraser: But then I, I think that's, this is, so if we think about the individual side of it, doing something in your own garden or something around growing for yourself, I don't think it needs to be as formal as organizing a community energy group, for instance.
Fraser: I think starting that process yourself and having those conversations, as you say, advocacy, not just to your politicians, but you are the most, you're a far more trusted voice in your neighborhood or in your family or in your workplace than just about any government agency, for example. So I think it's not big, and it's not sexy, and it's not something that people like to recommend.
Fraser: But for me, number one is, whatever individual action or organizing you do, advocating, talking about it to people around you, I think is such an important aspect of this. Raising your head above the parapet a little bit.
Matt: Yeah, I'd like to come back on a couple of points you've raised there, Becky, which kind of bother me as well.
Matt: I think too often, uh, local or community Action not just on climate sustainability, but just generally is viewed through the lens of you do this in your evenings and weekends and I would challenge that. I think there are ways to incorporate businesses into structure enterprise in a way. Where we start to professionalize this and we do, you look at, you know, cooperatives, uh, as, as, as a model where people are gamefully employed by this, but the profits aren't necessarily offshored and, and you see that there is an emphasis as sort of anchoring in that local community in a way that maybe others are, I'm not, I'm not saying it's a panacea. I'm just framing that it doesn't have to be big multinational private companies that have a kind of business to customer relationship that doesn't connect you in or you feel disconnected from, from your neighbors and local community.
Matt: So I think there's that the other part that that concerns me greatly and something I'd like to research further is when you have flag bearers for community or grassroots action. The next question is, well, is there a, is there a foundation of community here to support that, to join the dots and to, to act as a foundation for the types of conversations that lead to these initiatives, like community energy, like community transport, community growing, farming, whatever it might be.
Matt: And, and if you look back at the kind of industrial and cultural history of the UK over the, the, the mid to late 20th century, it was basically de industrialization and the tearing up of, of many urban and rural communities, you know, I really eyeopening visit for me in East Ayrshire for the uninitiated, that sort of Southwest or South of Scotland, um, heading sort of South of the central belt and the de industrialization of the coal Mining industry there is very, very, very clear to, even without speaking to anybody, it is clear, visually clear today.
Matt: And to then expect that you could then kick on and that the fabric of, of a community is still very much intact to be able to do something different. I think misses the bigger picture. And I think can be very insensitive to the history of those communities. So my question, my challenge is how do we build a foundation for, for communities that then lends itself to, to action. Um, and that's, that's a different question entirely, I think.
Fraser: I don't think it's unanswerable, though. I, I think there are examples in all types of communities around the country of, it generally relies on one very tenacious and motivated person with a big idea, uh, carrying it forward.
Fraser: I don't know that it's as, I agree with your points, Matt. I think the sort of atomization of society, de industrialization, also the demise of sort of organized religion in this country as well. People aren't coming together on a specific day of the week in ways that they used to, certainly not in most religions in the country.
Fraser: I think that's probably played a role, but I don't think that means that suddenly the the fabric of, of community isn't there. It's just different. It's just not the same as it was. And we saw during COVID, for example, these kinds of mutual aid organisations, people helping people local to them who might've been, you know, struggling to get out and get their, their food shop and people who were struggling with mental health support.
Fraser: There were so many examples of communities organize and mobilize and within themselves, and I would worry about the framing of you know, things are so, so different. How do you, how do you then sort of build something from that? I think something can always be built. Often it falls on a very few, very small number of shoulders.
Matt: I totally agree. And I don't want to paint a bleak picture. And I think some of the work That we've been doing around sort of social relations of energy retrofit has been about how do you leverage existing um or nascent social networks that may look very different in 2024 than they did in 1964 Okay.
Matt: How do you leverage those to get sustainable action done and and there's there's different routes in and I find For me, one of the most powerful networks, social networks for me is through this, through my children's school, you know, that's a really powerful network, but there's also, you know, the football club, I coach for them, my son plays there.
Matt: That's another really important space. You've got the workplace. How do you make use of these? Cause those are where many communities or even more established communities operate and exist.
Becky: I think there's an element here as well, though, Matt, about slowing down because I've gone through state different stages of my life, like even over the last five, six years, even just take the, that period during COVID that you referred to at the beginning of COVID, I found myself slowing down whilst people adapted to this notion of being online. And then once we adapted to that, it was such a ramping up and I definitely found myself with more time to engage in my community through a variety of forms when I was when I was in that space of being able to slow down a little bit. And I think that, um, you know, today, a lot of people are in families where both parents are working, sometimes working two jobs, like it's, it's, I think there's an element here of how can people slow down so that they can engage in these different ways outside of rushing from one job to another to pick the kids up to do this, to do that, you know, how can, how can we restructure our lives to enable that time and that space to have those conversations?
Fraser: I think Hugo made this point in the water episode really, really well. And I think we've made it at various junctures before is we don't need every single person involved in a local activist campaign or organization. People with the time and the bandwidth. Absolutely. Good engagement. Absolutely. Um, you know, you don't need a single mom with two jobs in Easter house in Glasgow to down everything and start their own community energy project.
Fraser: There's also, I think on that the previous point, not to hark on it too much. There are also so many hardworking, effective community organisations in spite of a breakdown of typical social relations, in spite of a challenging policy and funding landscape who do incredible work. That's not to take it for granted, but these organisations, whether it's in a sports club, I don't mind the, the local sports club down here also run a sort of climate days.
Fraser: They also run a mental health service, a drop in service, um, on a, on a Monday night, every single week. There's a lot of community organisations out there doing great stuff. And I think for me, the question is a little bit, as you say, Becky, how do you give people a bit more bandwidth to slow down and get involved in this?
Fraser: How do you make sure that you're not just dropping out the people who don't have the time or the capacity, uh, but also how do you support the work that already happens and build on that work in a meaningful way? That's partly through our participation. That's partly through sort of shifting the landscape to recognize the work that they do.
Matt: I agree. So again, another piece that I picked up this week was Chris Boardman, chair of Sport England, I think it is, came out this week and said, look, football clubs, sort your act out incredibly unsustainable, taking short haul flights from Manchester to Birmingham, sort it out. And then, as with any good piece, so you're not sort of leaving with doom and gloom, it's identified a couple of teams that were doing positive things, Forest Green Rovers, Millwall, um, you know, whether this is about, uh, their travel policy, uh, whether this is about how they look after their pitch, whether it's about them having sort of recycled strips.
Matt: And I connect this to your point, Fraser, is There's, there's a lot of stuff that needs to come from the individuals up, but actually there's a lot that organisations can do to set the tone and to point people in the right direction. And I think that's incredibly powerful and that's. When, whenever, sometimes I'm sort of scolded in the work I do that with the emphasis on grassroots and community and local, and I work quite a lot with big corporates, big companies, my view is that's absolutely what you need to do to bring communities along with you.
Matt: They need to be working hand in glove and they need to be talking the same language with some of the same visions and goals. And I think the football is a really nice angle. If you have Manchester city stand up and say, right, we're going to sort this out. You bring in a massive international fan base with you.
Matt: And you really set the tone.
Becky: Yeah, that's really interesting. And I, I'm recalling back to a piece of work, uh, that read ended earlier in this year, earlier this year on, um, the culture sector in Wales and looking at, you know, decarbonization there. And one of the things that really came across to me in that work was where organisations had really embedded climate in their policies.
Becky: So both kind of a strategy level, but also down to kind of individual staff goals, like where they were setting priorities or KPIs for individual staff and by by emphasizing or rather aligning climate with climate. the things that we're already doing was absolutely critical to being able to start to see some of the some of the action at both the individual level and the organizational level.
Fraser: One, I think one, one last point as well that's important to, to get into this conversation is that we talk a lot about communities broadly defined, but it's important to recognize that community is not one single thing that looks the same everywhere. There are very different communities in every corner of the country.
Fraser: Sort of part of the part of the globe that do different work and organize differently and they're doing amazing they do amazing things, particularly in the UK. There are plenty communities of, you know, people of different color, different background, different religion who are innovating themselves at that at that local level, especially in energy.
Fraser: And Matt, you must have seen it around retrofit and around energy efficiency in these different programs. So I think yeah, recognising that when we do talk about community, and this applies to everyone as far as I'm concerned, it's not just one homogenous blob, there are lots of different types of communities doing quite incredible things with their issues and with need for greater support.
Fraser: Recognising that difference can get us a long way further forward in the conversation. Here, here, thats a really nice way to summarise it all.
Matt: So, look, we've got a Rossiter Phil. We've got a ton of episodes. We've got some really interesting ones scheduled, I might add. We've got a really good one coming up, looking forward to COP 29. But, Becky, and also Fraser, but basically Becky's parting shot. What would you like us to be covering off over the next few months or indeed years?
Becky: So I, and maybe this is a bit selfish because it means I might get to come back again, but I would love to see us digging into food systems in a little bit more detail. Because I know we've done a couple of episodes in this space and we've focused in on specific aspects of it, but I've started, you know, I feel like I see conflicting information around the climate impacts of our foods, depending on where we're looking.
Becky: And I know, you know, our world in data has got some great, um, graphs out there around sort of the climate impacts, but what I feel that it doesn't take is a kind of systems ecology perspective. And looking at that kind of that immediate snapshot versus the 10, 20 year perspective of how these different things kind of work in synergy with the land over time.
Becky: And I'd love to, I'd love to, to hear an episode or be involved in an episode where we get to dig into those, um, different points of view and really start to clear up some of what feels like conflicting information in this space.
Matt: Consider it done. Your wish is our command. Uh, and we'll definitely get you back for that one.
Matt: Fraser,
Fraser: I think that's a great idea. First and foremost, I think for me, something that we've covered off a little bit before, but maybe not in as much depth as we could and would like to is the jobs and skills side of things. I think increasingly, Yeah that from whenever we did cover it off, I don't have the episode to hand, but that conversation has progressed significantly.
Fraser: And I think we understand as well that the issues that we've had previously, while we're having different conversations, the issues broadly remain the same. Do we have enough people to to deliver this massive transition that, that we want. And how does that play out at a local level, especially when we're increasingly decentralizing things like energy and, and climate action.
Fraser: So I'd really like to get into that sort of local jobs, skills, opportunities question.
Becky: Here, here. And can I just throw in a buck on that one as well? Cause, um, I've seen as my husband's retrained and become a heating engineer. The fragmentation of that industry makes transition really challenging. So it's not, it's the number of people, but it's also the fact that everybody's a one man band.
Becky: There's very few, um, larger organisations working in that space. And so that just makes change so much harder.
Matt: Yeah. Matt, what would you like to do? Okay. I'll answer that question. Um, we've got, uh, I think I'm going to double down on the sports one actually. So Chris Boardman, if you're listening, you won't be, but if you are welcome.
Matt: Um, I'd love to talk about how we decarbonize and make more sustainable sport because it's what many of us spend our evenings and weekends following reading. Um, and I just think there's a whole gamut of potential there about leading by example, particularly from some of the people who are, you know, paid the most.
Matt: So, um, I would love to do that. Um, and I'd also love to talk it from the grassroots up because some of the really exciting examples of, uh, sustainable action in terms of sport is happening from the grassroots. So yeah, local climate and sustainable action on your doorstep. Let's, uh, explore the sports angle.
Matt: So, we shall conclude there. What an episode it's been, and it's been an absolute pleasure for me to get to this massive milestone.
Becky: Yeah.
Fraser: Well done everyone. And so, for the 100th time, if you can believe it, you've been listening to Local Zero. Whether you've been with us from the start or if you've joined us recently, thank you for being a part of the journey so far.
Matt: But we're not stopping at 100. So to help us reach our next milestone, please take the time to share the pod with your colleagues, family and friends. Anyone who you think might like it.
Becky: And a massive thank you to all of the amazing guests over the last four years who've given up their time to come on the pod and to help it grow. Oh, I hate to say this goodbye, but it won't be the last. I hope to be back. So long and farewell.
Matt: Until next time.
Becky: Okay, bye. Bye all.