78: All Aboard the Glasgow Bike Bus

Matt and Becky reveal some very exciting news from the Local Zero team (!) before discussing the logistics of the school commute - and then welcome Camille Warrington from the Shawlands Bike Bus in Glasgow to discuss this initiative.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Matt: Hello and welcome to Local Zero. 

Becky: Yes, this is our first episode back after a short break, and we have a very wholesome chat lined up for you today.

Matt: Now that sound you just heard is a bike bus, and a bike bus is a group of adults, children, cycling, scooting, or wheeling along a route together, along a road that would otherwise be too dangerous. This is obviously much better for the environment. And I am delighted that later on today, we'll be welcoming Camille Warrington from the Shawlands bike bus in Glasgow to discuss this initiative in more detail.

Becky: And before we get into the episode, if you haven't already, please do subscribe to Local Zero, wherever you get your podcasts. Check out our website, localzeropod.com, and follow us on X, formerly known as Twitter, at LocalZeroPod, where we'd love for you to get in touch with us. Give us episode suggestions, a grumble, or a compliment. We just want to hear from you regardless. 

Matt: Not sure a rebrand works whenever you have to put the “formerly known as” after it, but you get the picture.

Becky: No, I'm not sure X works either! I thought that was a typo that our producer made.

Matt: The fact that you didn't know what it was, either, I mean. But, um, we are a man down. 

Becky: A man down, and a man up.

Matt: A man up, because there is congratulations in order. Fraser is now a daddy.

Becky: Woo woo!

Matt: So, we're hoping that he's knee deep in, well, whatever – nappies, babygrows, uh, formula milk, whatever it might be. Um, but congratulations Fraser, we're absolutely buzzed. 

Becky: Absolutely. Can't wait to meet the wee fellow.

Matt: Yes, exactly. We've been distracted by our own children over the summer break. You've, you're two are now back at school?

Becky: They went back this morning and uh, it is a little, little breather of relief. It's a good day. It's been somewhat nuts, but yeah, no, it's been, it's, it's a good day when the kids go back to school. No, it's been a lovely summer holiday.

Matt: I mean, they want to go back. 

Becky: Mm-hm. They, uh… 

Matt: They don't want to be stuck at home. 

Becky: Well, I don't know. We've, we've been doing everything. They've been climbing and surfing and bodyboarding and hiking and making campfires and all of the great things that, uh, kids can do in summer in Cornwall.

Matt: Sounds like you've had a lovely, lovely summer. And as we go back to school, so begins the school commute, does it not?

Becky: Oh yes, yes it does. 

Matt: So, let me ask, how do your two get to school? 

Becky: We predominantly walk, most of the time. Sometimes we drive if we need to do, you know, something after – if I'm going onto the supermarket or the train station. But it is an hour-long commute for me.

So it takes me half an hour or so to walk them to school, half an hour or so to walk home. So it is quite a long way. We are, I would love for us to be able to cycle, uh, but it's quite a steep, uphill road. And my kids are probably not good enough cyclists yet. 

Matt: And Cornwall is, is, yeah, is known for its, uh, naughty little hills. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I first must confess, I don't normally do the school commute. The vast majority of the time it's my wife who will help out. And on that it's around this time of year, the end of, you know, the year, um, sorry, the school year, and at the beginning of the school year in Glasgow, when the weather's lovely. 

As we're talking right now, we'll walk. It is walkable and probably a bit like for you, it's about half an hour there, half an hour back. But as the weather closes in, we get lazy, uh, we hop in. I mean, we've got an electric plug-in. So we, you know, we're not spurting fumes, but we are part of, part of that mass herd migration to the school gates, which is, I have to say, pretty depressing.

Even more to be part of the problem rather than just fuming, uh, no pun intended on the, on, on the sides.

Becky: Yeah. I find that if I have to drive, I mean, parking is just so hard around where my, where my kids go to school. There is no parking. You have to try and find on-street parking and it's all double yellow lined everywhere around there.

And honestly, I get home and I'm more frustrated and stressed and it's just a horrible start to the day. So I think, you know, these alternative mode of transport, I was so much more relaxed when we've been walking. It's great. You get out, get a bit of exercise. Um, you know, it's a really lovely feel. 

Matt: Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, today we're going to be talking about bike bus, which is really a movement about trying to get people, I say people, kids and their parents out of the car and onto the bike. And as you well know, Becky, before you moved, Southside of Glasgow and anybody who's familiar with a kind of post industrial city, sort of tight streets, three or four story-high, Victorian sandstone buildings, very busy arterial roads.

These bike buses are basically, like a, I don't know, a human convoy really, that kind of squeezes the traffic out of their way. 

Becky: Yeah, I can really empathise with that, Matt. So I'm like remembering back to COP26, which doesn't feel as long ago as it probably was, where I was lucky enough to join the Moving for NOW climate bike ride.

And I do remember the last day of the bike ride, we cycled from one of the suburbs on the, on the Southside of the city, all the way into the city. And I found it terrifying and we were in a convoy. So we were in a convoy the whole time. Professional cyclists at the front, at the back, electric cars protecting us.

There must've been a group of at least 10 of us. And even so, I found it quite difficult and challenging. The roads, the potholes, dotting out the way. And cars not, you know, particularly during that rush hour commute, not being particularly happy about having to go around us or the, the wait that they had. 

Matt: No. No. And that frustration that we've seen, uh, very unfortunately leach out of, you know, various citizens, uh, with Just Stop Oil and XR.

Some may frame, uh, the bike bus and the Kidical Mass Movement, which we'll talk about a bit in a moment, as a protest movement. Others would not – it's just a simple, healthy way of getting, getting to school. But you're still delaying, potentially delaying, it depends, you know, you are probably perceived to be slowing down somebody else's commute to work or even to school.

But yeah, I mean, it's this safety in numbers thing. And also, interestingly, it's not just safety in numbers in that particular commute, but there’s safety in numbers as this is happening all over the world. So I was checking out the Kidical Mass Movement, which is an umbrella, really, for these bikers.

Becky: It's a great name.

Matt: Great name. 500 locations, 150,000 people. This is, there's a map there, which you can all hop onto. And, um, it's everywhere. You know, there's probably one near you, wherever you're listening from. We have listeners here, Becky, from about 130 countries. Um, I would hope, you know, you might, you might have coverage across most of those.

So Google Kidical Mass: K I D I C A L. Uh, and that will give you a flavour of what the movement is about. We're going to hear a lot more from Camille, um, in a moment about it, but you can then get on explore the one nearest to you. And, um, and basically the local group will have their own local set of rules, which will, you know, they'll, they'll run on certain times for certain reasons to certain locations

Um, and again, we'll hear about the one in the South, Southside of Glasgow. But yeah, I mean, there's not one right next door to me or one that goes to our school. If there was. Um, I’d get involved. Should I be setting one up? Probably. 

Becky: I have just looked at the map and it is brilliant to navigate and, uh, there are none in Cornwall either. So, so maybe that's a task for me to get on as well. 

Matt: It is. It is. But listen, before we get deep into the world of, of the bike bus, I just wanted to kind of reflect a little bit on a very, very busy news season. Now you have been on holiday, okay, so I'm not expecting you off your surfboard with the kids on the beach to be tuning into BBC news or whatever it is.

Matt: Um, but there has been some big news stories, so just wanted to kind of flag a couple and get your sense on these. Feel like I'm maybe presenting this for the first time since you've come back from annual leave. But we did get some good news yesterday as we record, yesterday, um, on the lifting of the onshore wind ban in, uh, in England, which isn't framed as a ban, but it is a de facto ban, which potentially opens the door to onshore wind in England, which I think is a, is uh, given where the offshore wind market’s showing signs of starting to stall in the UK, potentially really important. I mean, in Scotland, we have them everywhere, but, um, Cornwall, I guess not so common.

Becky: No, not, not as common in Cornwall. Uh, although, yeah, you do see, you do see them as you're going around.

I guess just my, uh, my sort of, barometer is, is, uh, Scotland, so I guess nowhere's going to be quite as common as that, is it? Um, but actually it's a really interesting space. Um, and one of my colleagues was actually talking about this on, uh, the Radio 4 PM programme. So we'll link that in, in our show notes for anybody that wants to, uh, dive in a little bit more detail.

Matt: Absolutely. And the, the mind bending stat that came out, um, I think just prior to the ban being, uh, lifted was that in England last year, we installed only two onshore wind turbines. Two. And do you know which country installed more? Ukraine. Whilst it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, you know… Obviously it's been invaded.

It is, uh, it is war-torn and we're installing less. So big, big, big, um, emphasis there on, on doing more and questions around – and there's a lot, I know Becky in your space – these projects will have to gain community support. 

Becky: Absolutely. 

Matt: Quote unquote, whatever that means, however you do that. So I think this is a subject we need to pick up for a future episode.

Becky: Absolutely. I think, you know, working with communities is really critical if you want to develop something that doesn't just generate wind, but that can also bring wider benefits into the area, because absolutely alongside these projects, there are huge opportunities to support, you know, local economic development and other local ambitions. So yeah, a real opportunity here, but I think it needs to be done well.

Matt: And with the lifting of one ban, we see the potential implementation of another: my biggest bugbear at the moment, disposable vapes. So a big shout out to Laura Young, who on X, Twitter, whatever you want to call it, @LessWasteLaura. Laura has been campaigning relentlessly in Scotland over the last few months, probably even longer, about getting disposable vapes banned.

And now Scottish Government have committed to a consultation to ban these. Now Becky, I don't know whether the same, um, epidemic of disposable vape waste is littering your streets, but in Glasgow it is everywhere, and it is a nightmare.

Becky: It's absolutely shocking and, um, you know, they're not easy to get rid of. They're not part of typical recycling, at least where I live. So it's a real effort if you do want to dispose of them well, to do that. But the littering problem, uh, I don't think we're, I personally haven't seen as much of an issue as you have. But I also live in a relatively small space, and I suspect cities will be far worse for it.

Matt: Yeah, and I think just, maybe just to wrap up on this, again, no pun, um, with, uh, you're looking potentially at something which is an environmental boon, in terms of reducing, um, you know, waste by making these essentially, uh, less disposable, more reusable, um, but also hopefully a health benefit because if you're making these, probably if they're, if they're non disposable, they're probably gonna be less cheap.

If they're less cheap, they're less accessible. If they're less accessible, you haven't got the same epidemic of kids, um, using them, which is a real problem, a real, real problem in terms of kids accessing them. So I just kind of, your whole thing in the past in previous episodes: co-benefits. And I think this is a real win-win in terms of health and environment. Goes back to discussions we've had about low emission zones too.

Becky: That's a, that's a lot of exciting stuff happening just as I'm come back from, uh, from holiday. And obviously lots of other things on the radar that we can get into over the coming weeks. But I think Matt, now we should probably bring in our guests and have a really exciting chat all about the bike bus.

Camille: Hello, my name's Camille Warrington. I'm a parent and member of the Shawlands Bike Bus in Glasgow. 

Matt: Welcome, Camille. It is an absolute pleasure to have you on. From your perspective, what is a bike bus? 

Camille: I think how me and our group would probably define it is a group of people traveling by bike on a pre-planned route at a set time. Um, a little bit as a bus route would work, but just via bike.

Matt: We were talking very much about the schools being back, as we record, Becky's two have just gone back to school. Hurrah. Um, and uh, obviously the recommencement of, of the school commute. The Shawlands bike bus, which we're going to come onto in a moment – um, but just more broadly, the bike bus movement. Am I right in saying this is much bigger than the school commute in general, but can be applied to that as an example? 

Camille: Absolutely, yeah. And there are examples of kind of bike buses, I guess, being used for different things. But generally, If you look at kind of bike buses around the world at the moment, most of them, most of them that those have a high profile, are, do involve the school commute.

Um, although I think kind of historically there's been kind of different reasons why people might cycle together. But I think if you look at the kind of recent generation of bike buses, those that have kind of sparked the attention of the media and social media. Um, tend to be those that involve children making journeys to school.

Becky: But you said, obviously, it's got a broader focus. So where did it start? What were its origins, if not the school movement?

Camille: I, I mean, the origins are a little bit unclear to me and others. Although some of our friends who are involved in the Barcelona Bike Bus are actually writing about the history of the bike bus at the moment.

Um, and hoping to publish something in the next couple of months. And I did reach out, um, to them and others on our kind of international WhatsApp, um, to get people's views. There were kind of, there's evidence we found of bike buses from 1998. There was a bike bus, again, involving a school commute in Belgium.

There's examples from around 2008, 2009 from the US, from West Yorkshire and Keighley, from, um, Canada, from Australia, but they're quite kind of, interestingly, like, isolated examples that almost seem to have kind of popped up in isolation. Probably, I assume, because it, it makes sense and it's a good idea.

The recent kind of history, I suppose, which I think is also worth recognising, starts in Catalonia in 2020. And I guess that's the beginning of what people might talk about as the, the new generation of bike buses, which, yeah, which our bike bus definitely has its roots in.

Becky: And even though they're springing up all over the place, and it's perhaps not as jointed, are they all trying to address the same sort of problem? Um, have they all sort of come into being for similar reasons, or do you see quite a disparity there? 

Camille: No, I think there's actually quite a lot of unity. People, other people might challenge that, but having been part of a group that went to Barcelona, um, last Easter, I met with people from the US and Germany and Spain.

I think what was really striking is that, yes, there's quite a lot of diversity, but there's an awful lot, um, that's shared and in common. Um, and that may be because we've all kind of come about having been inspired from the same roots, the same kind of origins. But I also think, um, yeah, that actually what we experience and what we experience after starting a bike bus has a lot of commonality, both in terms of what we're hoping to achieve, the kind of symbolism of it, I guess, and also, and the joy of it as well.

Matt: So, so what is it? What are your kind of measures of success or, you know, why, what would a good outcome be for you? Because, you know, we were talking, Becky and I were sharing our experiences of the school commute, which I have to say aren't massively positive. A scrum, um, and instead of people, cars; it's sort of quick in and out.

Not, you know, a few words said at the gates, but everybody's in a rush. What inspired you to do something different? Why, um, what was the problem you're kind of trying to solve, I guess?

Camille: Yeah, and I, I don't know if, if it's, if it's been kind of talked or thought about that in terms of like, “this is the problem we're trying to solve”. But it definitely reacts against an issue. So I think there's, there's two things. I think, you know, a simple answer would be to say like, actually in an ideal world, we wouldn't need to bike bus. Like the reason we cycle collectively together is about a lack of cycle, safe cycle infrastructure, child-friendly cycle infrastructure.

And in an ideal world, we wouldn't need to bike bus, we would be able to kind of cycle with our kids individually and families, or children cycle individually safely along that route. So I think that's kind of part of it. Um, I also think as well, like obviously that's a kind of very long-term, utopian goal, particularly in the city we live in and the country we live in.

It might be different if you're in the Netherlands. But I think there's also something about, kind of, in the meantime, how can we support our children to cycle to school, cycle on the roads, take up space in spaces that are dominated by cars, um, do that safely, and also along the way, I guess we end up kind of doing this kind of gentle everyday, every week protest that, that shouts on some level about the need for better infrastructure and the rights of children to take up space within our cities and move safely through them.

Becky: I love that Camille and, and it's so interesting hearing you talk about it as a protest. And my, so my kids were, uh, were at one of, uh, were at the school in south Glasgow where I know the Shawlands bike, like it’s at the end of the Shawlands bike bus route. And I was very excited about the opportunity to get involved.

As it happened, when we lived there, it was quicker for us to just walk to school than to get to the point where we would have to join the bike bus, it was its very early days. Um, and I don't know that I necessarily thought about it as a protest. So I love that there's these kind of different interpretations. But maybe just going back a little bit, I mean, how did it come into being?

What are some, what were some of the things that you really, um, you know, had to do to get it going? Because as an idea, and hearing you talk about it, it sounds brilliant and inspirational, but actually to bring that many people together, was it challenging? Did you come up with it after you'd been to, to Spain? Like, how did it actually, you know, how did you actually get going on that route?

Camille: Yeah, well, I absolutely can't take credit for it, but what happened was essentially, a parent, Gareth and Jo, some parents were in Copenhagen and I think, having returned from Copenhagen to Glasgow, experienced a sense of frustration that our cities here in the UK um, just don't compare in terms of active transport, facilitating active transport design that is kind of child and family-friendly.

And that that coincided with seeing a viral video of the Barcelona bike bus. And as part of that video, or part of that Twitter thread, my understanding is that, that Gareth saw something that said, “and this only started with five families”. And so he thought, “actually, I know five families, I know five families, we can do this”.

And from my perspective, how I experienced it, was receiving a WhatsApp message from Gareth, who's my neighbour, alongside four other families saying, “have a look at this video, would you be up for starting something similar?” To which we all replied, “yes”. And it was like, “okay, let's meet here on Friday”.

And we all cycled to school, and that's literally how it started. Um, it was November 2020. I think it was the first weekend, coincidentally the first weekend of COP26. And we, I don't think, really knew what we were doing. There was a kind of vague idea we needed somebody at the front, somebody at the back.

Any other adults would try and make a kind of wall along the right-hand side of, of children, and we would cycle along a route that we'd pre-planned to school. And we really learned by kind of doing, made mistakes along the way. And we were very small for a long time. And I think for me, that's quite interesting.

It's been interesting thinking about how something that is, as you say, seems now from the outside, so big and successful and coordinated, has evolved and sustained because it's done both of those things. And I think there is something about starting, starting small and accepting it as something small for quite a long time, just seeing where it went, that was really important.

Matt: So, I think that's really inspirational. I think being able to just start something small between neighbours. I mean, many people will be listening to this thinking “that's achievable”. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying, I'm not taking anything away in terms of the commitment and the hard work, but it's achievable.

That's really inspirational in its own right. And what I would like to maybe talk about now is what you've got out of it. Both you, your kids, maybe the community more broadly. But also if we could maybe after that bleed into broader discussions about what change maybe you could see being seeded by this initiative. So just maybe starting from yourself and your family, what have you got out of this?

Camille: Totally, and I think that's a really good question. And it's in some ways a hard one to answer because I think there's quite a lot in a lot of different ways. I, I think one thing that's really important is a sense of community. And actually we did a little kind of ask around, a little just daft survey about a year ago, and said like, you know, asking people what their motivations were, like why people were coming, because we get asked this question a lot.

And actually, that sense of community and being part of something was, was really significant for a lot of people. And it's definitely been for me, I think I've described it previously as my like, my weekly dose of community. There's something, it's a set time, it is, as you say, achievable, um, it's not, it's not a big disruption or ask on my normal routine, and it's a coming together and a, and doing something collective, and that's really nice, um, and, and then I think there's all the kind of additional impacts, there's something quite, there's something quite kind of joyous and dare I say it empowering about being able to cycle on the roads with small children, safely.

For me, um, I know there's times I felt quite emotional doing it in a, in a really positive way. And I, I've tried to kind of put a finger on why, and I know other people have had that experience. And for me, there's something about the fact that it kind of disrupts the normal order of things. It disrupts the normal way children move around our cities.

And there's a sense of children taking up space and claiming space in spaces that are normally where vehicles are prioritised and that kind, that symbolism, which was not something I kind of set out to achieve, or I don't think we ever set out to say we want to kind of create this symbolic gesture, but it becomes that.

And I think that's really powerful and actually really motivating to continue it. I think another really kind of basic thing is seeing how much a lot of children really enjoy it. Um, both for them I think, that sense of connection, like cycling with their friends, cycling in the road, primary one children cycling in the road, um, scooting in the road, which, which like you're kind of wincing there, lots of people are like, “Yeah, how does that work?”

Like going across quite big junctions, but making that possible in a way that feels really safe, like really buffering children from that. And it's like, it's really joyous seeing them and their kind of joy. It's contagious. And that's really motivating, I think and part of the kind of key to its success in sustaining itself. 

And then I think there's all these other, other impacts that I've seen and others have seen. Like, just I use my bike more. Like on a really basic level, my tyres are always pumped up. My bike used to be in the shed and I would go months without using it. The fact that we always make sure our tyres are pumped up for a Friday morning means it's now really easy for me to just get my bike out to do a short journey.

And in the way that previously I'd put my key in the shed and think, Oh God, what state is my bike in? And I just, it meant that a journey I used to do to take my kid to nursery by car on a Friday, I immediately changed to just as an extension of my bike bus journey. So just on really basic levels like that it, it, it changed behaviour and I think it has for others as well.

Becky: And do you see it shifting the way that the children think about moving around? Because like, if I reflect on my own children, so we predominantly walk to school, but we went through a phase where we were driving a lot because we were commuting from, from further away. And then when it came to get them to walk again, they were like, “Why aren't we getting in the car? Why do we have to walk?” You know, and like moaning about their legs aching and all of this. But so thinking back, you know, from that very first one to now, do you see a shift in the way children, the children are thinking about moving?

Camille: I think that's I think that's really hard to say. Like, and I think, you know, I, I would say that, you know, my, my instinct is yes. And if I look at my daughter, um, she, who couldn't cycle, she used to sit on the back of my bike, she was nursery age when it started, she's now primary two. She, like a big motivation for her to learn to ride a bike was to, to be a bike-riding member of Bike Bus, because we also have people on scooters and stuff.

So that, and I really saw the impact that had on her. She's, she really wants, she wants to go to bike, to bike on her school, to bike to school every day. So I think it kind of normalises that.

Matt: Yeah. 

Camille: Um, I think I feel like I see more kids on bikes, uh, you know, coming to school. But yeah, I'd be kind of cautious about kind of claiming that. And it's, you would certainly hope that. I think among adults, I could confidently say there are adults who are part of Bike Bus who didn't have bikes who now have bikes. Adults who haven't cycled since they were a child who will say, actually their child saying, “Mom, Mom, can I join Bike Bus?” has made them get on a bike and develop their confidence.

Matt: This is, this for me is where you start to see these kind of peer network effects and this cascading. So the hardest thing to do is to sort of, you know, cast the first stone and to be the first handful of families to do this.

It's much easier to be the 95th, 96th, 97th family to be involved. Now I'm not saying it's still not a leap of faith, but actually once you have that, and I know the umbrella term is Kidical Mass, okay. But that, you know, that, that critic, that critical mass, I can't even say critical now, I've said critical so much.

That critical mass is so important. And what I would like to get from you is the kind of reaction that you've had from other parents, other drivers, whether you know some of this has been positive, people sort of seeing momentum of travel and wanting to get involved. But also the pushback, because I imagine you've probably had some drivers looking at this thinking “I'm late for work”, you know, “Get out my road”. How have you found that?

Camille: I think, to my and others surprise, I would say 90 percent of the response we have is incredibly positive. I think we get people, we get drivers waving to us, we get, because we do, we do make traffic pause, you know, the traffic does you know, either instinctively pauses when they see a kind of mass of young cyclists coming towards them, or at times when we're going through a junction might pause for us.

So, yeah, we see people's faces. And people generally give us thumbs up, they wave, they smile, it's really nice. We do sometimes get drivers who you know are frustrated, are rushing to get to work through a busy city in traffic. I think one of the things that's been a bit of a game-changer for us is the development of a button, which you may or may not be aware of that we have that changes the traffic, like sequencing, at a key junction.

Matt: No.

Camille: Which I can, yeah. Which is kind of, I can…

Matt: Do tell us more. That's the kind of content we're here for. 

Camille: So I mean, it’s, when we started, I would say there was a tricky, it was a particularly tricky junction. One of the things that was the kind of trial and error was the route. 

Matt: Yeah.

Camille: The route we took the first week, which seemed the obvious one, involved a really steep hill at the end. Children cried and came off their bikes. So quickly we adjusted and there's a really kind of, a kind of relatively flat route, goes straight up to the school, but it involves a really busy, awkward junction. It's awkward if you're in a car and we're kind of swinging right. And the traffic lights have a 10-second kind of window of opportunity to go right on them.

And the traffic lights of traffic coming the other way, into where you're kind of turning are, um, rare, raring to go. And we had a few hairy moments on that. And we had a, we had a moment that felt particularly hairy, where an aggressive driver, um, came very close to an adult, like children were fine, but you know, and it shook us all up.

And we had a kind of, uh, a catch-up, a call, a zoom call, just kind of said, well, “How do people feel?” And, and our initial response was we, we reached out to community policing and they supported us at that junction for a long time. And that was great. I'm really grateful for that. And I think we also got, we also got fluorescent tops, which I think made us more visible.

Those are kind of lots of little marginal gains we made, but somebody and I, I'm not necessarily know the kind of how this started, but somebody got in touch with us at the council, and proposed that they could make us a button, which I think, um, they exist, they exist, um, for, I think, some bus systems.

Matt: Mm.

Camille: Um, but they've never been given to a group of cyclists before, and I think it's kind of a unique in the world.

Matt: Wow.

Camille: Um, is a button which we could press, it only works at a certain period of time on a Friday morning, although we've just managed to get it to work on a Friday afternoon, when we do bike bus home now, on a Monday morning, when we've started a new bike bus.

And so it's a small window where it's up. When we get to the lights, we press it. And the next time the lights turn green, we have 45 seconds and it's a total game-changer. So it means we're not going through anyone else's red lights. We can travel through safely and it's, it’s, it’s amazing, it's such a little thing.

And we now take it in turns and children are in charge of the button each week. So a different child's in charge of the button and presses it, um, each week. And as I say, they've just adjusted it so that, um, we can use it on the way home from school.

Matt: Yeah. I want that button. So no doubt the kids do.

Camille: Everyone wants that button. Yeah. So yeah. So there's, there's that. And there's, and there's also a bit of pushback on social media. Going back to your question about pushback. Unsurprisingly, um, mostly comments about, “Oh, I bet they don't do it in the rain”, which I will categorically say is not true. We bike bus in all weathers: snow, wind, rain. Um, but generally, yeah, generally it inspires way more excitement than it does kind of annoy people. 

Becky: That is absolutely amazing seeing the very real change. And I know the junction that you're talking about. I can completely understand the challenges. I mean, earlier in our conversation, you talked about the bike bus as a form of protest, and how effective do you think that it has been as a form of protest?

So are you getting people in the council sitting up and taking notice? Are you seeing wider change? How are the kids getting involved? You know, so, so, you know, I, I don't think we can say a word against all of these, uh, very positive experiences that you've described so far, but I'm just interested in that. How is it stimulating wider change in the city?

Camille: Yeah, I think that's a good question. And I think when we talk about it as a form of protest, I don't think anyone ever sat down and said, “We're going to do this as a form of protest against”, you know, that was never articulated at the beginning. I think it's, it's kind of, it's almost an accidental activism sort of thing, an accidental everyday activism.

And people who are involved, I don't think it, I think for some people that it's not that either. Um, but I think we are undoubtedly aware that we are a visual, we're a visual reminder of, um, of something that's missing in terms of safe infrastructure. And, and I know it's an, it's been a gateway for lots of us to get involved in wider public conversations.

I think it's, we know that just as Barcelona inspired our bike bus, our bike bus has inspired others, both here in the UK, but also in America, who, who again, saw us on Twitter. I think it's brought, um, brought, um, brought us into a kind of a number of platforms or public kind of dialogue. BBC World Service, podcasts, TV slots, where it gives us a chance to talk about the need for opportunities and infrastructure that supports safe, active travel and, um, so I think, yeah, those, those changes, absolutely. And it's connected us up, I think that's the other thing, it's connected us to a kind of global network of other people with similar passions and concerns and, and again, that's really, powerful and, and kind of sparks conversations and ideas, um, from other parts of the world. And again, allows us to share what's worked for us.

Matt: Camille, you mentioned learning by doing in terms of how to do the bike bus, but there'll be a whole lot of learning by doing in terms of what's missing. And you're talking about the bike bus being a reaction to the fact that the streets aren't safe enough really, or, or suitable for the average parent and child to get to school together.

Um, so just on reflection, and mindful that we are on the cusp potentially or certainly soon, of a general election. What, what are the kind of the things that you would be asking for, you know, from a transport minister, energy minister? What, what things do you feel are missing that would make your life and your kids’ much better in terms of getting to school?

Camille: I think that we, the way we design cities and transport kind of links is all wrong. And I think actually we need to start designing cities that prioritise environmental issues, prioritise active travel, prioritise children. Um, and, and think about, so I think it informs how our cities should be designed, where money should be invested.

There's so many wins from increasing cycle transportation infrastructure, that it feels like a no-brainer. And actually supporting people to take more journeys by bike, support, you know, support so many kind of wider aims that actually, we need a kind of commitment and investment because, yeah, individuals. It's like, individuals will continue to use their, you know, they use their cars as long as, yeah and continue to not take cycle journeys, as long as it's scary and difficult to do so. And I know that myself from cycling around Glasgow. My choice about how to travel is informed by how safe I feel on a bike getting there.

And when those safe routes aren't there, I'm much more likely to find other means. But when safe routes are there, I will cycle. And the South Side Way in south of Glasgow to the centre of town is a case in point, which I now use regularly because I can do 90 percent of a journey in segregated cycle lanes where I feel really safe and relaxed and I'm not constantly on edge.

Becky: It's been very, it's been really inspirational hearing you talk about the journey that you've been on, not just the bike journey, but you know, the journey over time from where you started as a group of five families to where you are today. Thinking about the future, where, where's next, where do you want to take this next?

Camille: I think, you know, and I think different people on the bike bus will have different hopes. What we, what we've tried to do is use the kind of energy and excitement that's come from the bike bus to spread to kind of wider issues around cycling accessibility. So, we've got some funding to support parents at the school who either don't know how to cycle – and we have parents who've never been on a bike before – those who don't have confidence, um, to get back on a bike.

And we've had a really successful initiative with that, which we'd love to extend because I think there's something about wanting to, you know, not, not force cycling on anybody. It's not for anyone, but ensure that as many people who want access to the kind of skills and support to cycle for them and their children have that.

And that there's a kind of normalisation, a high level of normalisation, um, of cycling. Less journeys to school by car. And that it's easier for people in our community and the communities around us to, to cycle both to school and make other journeys as well by bike.

Matt: Fantastic. And I'm wrapping up because there'll be lots of people listening to this thinking, “I want a piece of that. And I want my kids to be able to pick this up. I want to be next to them, that big smiley face, that sense of community”. So if people are interested in either joining one or establishing one, Camille, what should be their next steps?

Camille: I think firstly, there's just that, that word you I think used, it's been about recognising it's achievable. You don't need a lot of families to start it. There's also a network of, of existing bike buses who are very happy to kind of share their learning and support, um, others who want to set them up via just a conversation, coming and joining us, that sort of thing. I think there's something about just giving it a go and not feeling too much pressure to, to get it right or to make it big.

Um, just seeing what works and who in your community might be interested and, and remembering that, yeah, ours started with five families, as did other big ones, um, in places like Barcelona and other places around the world. And remembering that, I suppose would be kind of my key messages and just keep on going.

‘Cause I think there's something also for me about the success of it was just that for that long time that we were five or six families, we just kind of kept on turning up on a Friday morning. And then slowly but surely, it kind of captures people's attention and imagination and then it grows. 

Matt: It grew arms and legs. Well, listen, congratulations to you and the team and of course to the kids who make it all that little bit more exciting and fun. So well done and thank you so much for your time.

Camille: Thank you. 

Becky: What a great insight into the Shawlands bike bus from Camille. But perhaps the impact of it can be best summed up by those who are part of it.

Arthur: My name's Arthur and I love bike bus because I got a new bike. 

Estella: My name's Estella and I like bike bus because, um, it's fun to ride a bike with your friends and also it's just fun to ride a bike and listen to music.

Leon: My name's Leon, and I love Bike Bus because we cycle, and I love cycling. 

Nan: My name's Nan, and I like Bike Bus because I like the music on it.

Matt: So you've been listening to Local Zero. A plea once more to subscribe to the pod, and if you know anybody who might enjoy it, word of mouth is a very powerful tool as well. So why don't you suggest our podcast to them?

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Becky: Goodbye!