79: Low-carbon islands

In 2021, Scottish Government committed to making four Scottish Islands Carbon Neutral by 2040. This was increased to six islands following COP26. The ‘lucky six’ islands selected were Barra, Great Cumbrae, Hoy, Islay, Raasay and Yell – and, to quote the Scottish Government, this would ‘lay the foundations for future action relevant for all other islands in Scotland.’

Matt and Becky chat to Darragh Keenaghan and Rosie MacInnes, who are both working on the Carbon Neutral Islands project, to discuss their progress so far.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Becky: Hello and welcome to Local Zero with Matt and Becky. 

Matt: Today's episode is one we've been looking forward to covering for a very long while and begs the question, is it easier or more difficult to make an island with a smaller population carbon neutral?

Becky: Back in 2021, Scottish Government committed to making four Scottish islands carbon neutral by 2040. This was increased to six islands following COP26. 

Matt: And the lucky six islands selected were Barra, Great Cumbrae, Hoy, Islay, Raasay and Yell. And to quote the Scottish Government, this would lay the foundations for future action relevant for all other islands in Scotland. 

Becky: In today's episode, Darragh Keenaghan and Rosie Macinnes from the Carbon Neutral Islands Project join us to give us an update about how it's all going.

Matt: So whether you're a loyal listener or you're finding us for the very first time, please make sure you've subscribed to Local Zero wherever you get your podcasts. And you can check out our website, localzeropod.com and follow us on X or Twitter @LocalZeroPod. Finally, if you're on Mastodon, you'll find us at hashtag localzeropod.

Becky: So Matt, exciting episode today, but firstly, a very important thing to touch on. Folk will have heard our funding plea at the very start of this episode. It's exciting times for Local Zero. 

Matt: Absolutely. Yes. So we've, we've had a good run. We've been supported over the last three years almost now by the research councils, through, many will be familiar from our previous episodes, through the project EnergyRev, which is funded by UK Research and Innovation. But all good things come to an end. 

Becky: Mm-hmm.

Matt: Um, and we are looking to the next stage. So yes, if anybody's interested in supporting us and to keep the good work going, then we'd love to hear from you.

Becky: I know I never thought when we started that we'd get such a long run at this and, um, I never thought that I'd be able to put up with you and Fraser for this long, but it's been absolutely brilliant.

Matt: Exactly. No, it has. And you know, when we started, this was in the, the depths and the doldrums of, uh, COVID.

Becky: Mm-hmm.

Matt: Um, this was a real kind of I guess, you know, a silver lining to that period. It gave us a platform to discuss these matters, to bring in guests and to keep that dialogue going. I really valued it.

And initially we kind of set it up, um, with COP26 in mind, which obviously happened late ’21. It was delayed and we thought that might be the natural conclusion. And here we are, we're, we're almost at COP28. So, hopefully we're doing something right.

Becky: I think we've covered such an amazing diversity of episodes and today's just really gets me excited because it, it gets to the very core of what Local Zero is all about, and focuses on Scottish Islands, what can be done in very often quite unique local contexts. And we're talking about all about the Carbon Neutral Island Projects. But Matt, first of all, I think we need to unpack this term, “carbon neutral”. 

Matt: Well, okay, I mean, yeah, a pretty thorny subject. In terms of how they're framing a carbon neutral island, we'll hear more from the guests, but in effect, you know, this is truly neutral.

They're not really looking at, you know, offsetting and making, uh, you know, cuts elsewhere, but really truly carbon neutral islands by 2040. So then your emissions are offset by your sinks. Um, and this is really challenging. I mean, we're looking at, you know, a 17-year period and I've spent enough time, um, very lucky enough to have spent enough time on, on a number of islands across Scotland.

Um, and you know, these, these are, in fact, we profiled one on our pod way back when, uh, in terms of homes on Orkney, many of which are very inefficient. 

Becky: Yep.

Matt: Um, and whilst they have a wealth of renewables on many of these islands, many are very grid constrained, meaning it's quite difficult to chuck new renewables onto that local grid.

Um, so, you know, this is, this is challenging. And they're also very population, uh, sparse. So people have got to travel quite far, you know, whether it's even just a local shops or school. We've got kids who are maybe even schooling on the mainland so quite different from life in in suburban, Glasgow where I am. 

Becky: Absolutely, and I think the other thing that's quite a unique challenge for a lot of these islands is that the tourism's absolutely huge, right? So you see real boosts and drops in that population level, which brings its own unique challenges when thinking about how to manage those energy needs. And those, I guess, those carbon, carbon sources and carbon sinks over the course of an entire year. So some very, very interesting challenges. But before we get into all of that, you've got some exciting news for us.

Matt: Well, yeah, I mean, I guess sort of linked to this. Um, so many of the projects that are happening on the islands, but also, uh, in the Highlands of Scotland. Um, renewables are booming, onshore wind, big. We've got offshore wind, which is kicking off here and growing in the UK and obviously other countries. Um, something that we're hearing a lot more of is about community benefit funds.

So funds that have been established, um, to push money into the community, so it might be taking a share from that project, whether it be profits or revenues. And we heard actually on one of our former episodes, um, from members of the Fort Augustus and Glenmoriston, um, community company, where they're receiving about 600,000 a year from Scottish Southern and Energy from a local wind farm or local wind farms.

Um, one of the projects we've just partnered up with is with Foundation Scotland, who manage, give or take, about 7 million worth of community benefit funding. Um, and we're working with them to explore how well this is going, um, to understand, you know, what constitutes best practice, and to, to really help them, I guess, um, kick on and make sure that they're delivering long term community wealth.

Uh, so really exciting, and thank you to them for getting that funded, because it's a six-month project. Really excited to get my teeth into that. 

Becky: That's, that's absolutely brilliant, and I think it's, it's such a critical topic and it makes me think back to episode 70 in which Fraser and I talked about a project that we'd been involved in with Scottish Government, looking at local and community energy.

And as part of that, we ran a people's panel and we really actually focused on people who are typically excluded from the transition, um, excluded from energy projects like these. And you know what? We just saw overwhelming interest in being involved in these local projects in their areas, in the opportunity of being engaged with those developments through community benefit funds and other mechanisms as well.

So absolutely excited. So we'll have to have you talk about that in six months time and tell us all about how, you know, what you found.

Matt: Definitely. There's plenty of other stuff going on in the news. Some good, some frightening. Um, we'll maybe, maybe come to the frightening stuff in a moment. But as we've said, we're trying to carry some of the positive news stories initially. Um, colleague of mine, uh, works at Imperial College, chap called Dr Iain Staffell, who, um, along with Drax, uh, pioneers the Drax Electric Insights.

Some of their work has uncovered that this past quarter, UK wind energy capacity, i.e. how much wind power we have plugged into our grid, has now overtaken gas generation. So a real milestone, I think, when people say, "Oh, net zero, you know, it's miles away. We're never going to get there". We got to celebrate these wins.

So well done to Iain for picking that out. And well done to the UK, given all the terrible news stories from the past week about offshore failure and, you know, in our big contracts for difference. This is, this is important to flag that.

Becky: Yeah, absolutely brilliant. And, um, our guests won't be able to see the beautiful chart that you've put into our show notes so we might have to give that its own little special publication.

Matt:: No, but do check out Electric Insights from Iain, really good, kind of crunches the data and pulls out news stories. Um, another good news story, and I'm going to ask you a question here Becky, um, so, so get your quiz hat on. 

Becky: Goodness me. 

Matt: This is about electric vehicles, and within electric vehicles I include all forms of electric vehicles, whether that be electric vans, lorries, buses, cars, and also two and three wheelers. So very surprising new story from Bloomberg, new energy finance. They basically figured out how much these electric vehicles are, how much oil or oil equivalent they're displacing from our roads, which is about 1.5 million barrels per day, which I’m, not being burnt, because…

Becky: And that's globally? 

Matt: That's globally, okay, globally.

Becky: Wow.

Matt: Now, with your global hat on…

Becky: Oh, goodness me.

Matt: What share of those 1.5 million barrels are being displaced by two or three-wheeler electric vehicles?

Becky: So I'm assuming that's things like bikes and rickshaw, electric rickshaws, things like that.

Matt: Um, yeah, exactly. 

Becky: Gosh, my global hat. That's very difficult because obviously the UK context it's, it's not such a big proportion. Although having said that you do see more and more electric bikes around and where I live. There’s, there's heaps of them and I see them constantly being used now. 

Matt: That's good.

Becky: If we're thinking globally, I want to say probably half. 

Matt: It's good. 

Becky: Am I way off the money here? 

Matt: It’s, it's good but it's not the one. It’s, it's actually higher, believe it or not. It's 1 million of those barrels. 

Becky: Wow.

Matt: So about two-thirds. 

Becky: That's unbelievable. 

Matt: And, and to put, to put that into perspective, electric vehicle cars, so we've got sort of 66%, two-thirds is two to three-wheelers, electric vehicle cars just 18%, just over 250,000 barrels. So when we talk about electric vehicles, we cannot, cannot just consider the cars, these two to three-wheelers, um, making huge differences.

I'd loved, I tried to dig into the report a bit more. Firewalls meant I couldn't quite unpack it. Um, I'm guessing a lot of this will be in countries like China, India, um, where, you know, these, these vehicles are really lifting off, but again, a real good news story. 

Becky: That is a good news story. Don't bring us down on the sad news stories, Matt.

Matt: Well, I'm, I'm not, I'm just going to flag that I think this…

Becky: Yeah. 

Matt: 2023 has been the year that we didn't just consider climate change to be disrupting the Mediterranean countries and North African countries just from extreme heat. What has been so frightening has been the disruptive flooding. So as we speak, in the last few days, Libya has been subjected to unparalleled flooding. Conservative estimates about 10,000 people potentially dead, a quarter of the city damaged. I feel like this could be a turning point in terms of understanding that climate change wears many different hats, um, and doesn't just come in one particular form.

So yeah, um, obviously terrible news story. I, my thoughts are with, with those, but it hasn't just been Libya, been, whether it's been Turkey or Greece. But as I say, these terrible news stories are being offset by by some important gains and cuts.

Becky: It's absolutely shocking and it's really devastating to hear this and to see this. And I remember, if I just think back, even ten years ago when these events were far less frequent and far less severe, what I really started to see was where people were starting to experience this. There was, it brought that real message, or more than message, but that real kind of experience of what climate change can be home, and started to stimulate a lot more action.

And I just, I really hope that we can take more away from this and start to see more action, sparking governments just doing more and more to, to address this, because we've got to move quickly. 

Matt: I, I agree. And so, you know, today's episode all about islands and decarbonisation, obviously spotlight on Scotland, but, you know, we've just flagged some of the major, major disruptions from climate change in the Med, full of islands, full of very beautiful islands.

Um, so how these can not only mitigate and start to cut those emissions, but also potentially have to adapt. So looking forward to this episode and thinking, you know, what are the international lessons that other countries can learn from Scotland. 

Becky: Absolutely. Better bring our guests in. 

Rosie: Hi, my name is Rosie Macinnes and I am a Carbon Neutral Development Officer for the Isle of Raasay. Raasay is an island that's just off the Isle of Skye on the northwest coast of Scotland. It's the same size as Manhattan, but we have a population of 180 people here. 

Darragh: Hello, my name is Darragh Keenaghan and I am Project Manager for the Carbon Neutral Islands project, working for Community Energy Scotland.

Matt: So a very warm welcome to you, Rosie, and to Darragh too. Uh, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on. As we said in the kickaround, this is a subject we've been wanting to dig into for quite a while. I often find myself rambling around the Scottish islands on, uh, high days and holidays thinking, um, you know, how can we decarbonize these islands?

And I'm hoping today you might have a few answers to those questions. So before we get into that, I just wanted to kind of begin at the very beginning of how did you become interested in decarbonizing islands? What was the spur for you to move into this space? So maybe if I can begin with with Rosie. 

Rosie: Yeah, so I've grown up on the Isle of Raasay. I moved away very briefly for university and then came right back home again. I've always had an interest in energy and kind of over time, this has evolved quite specifically into community and kind of domestic energy in rural, a rural context. Um, so this program came up, um, combining islands and energy and I just, I could not get involved really.

Matt: Good to hear it. And Darragh? 

Darragh: Yeah, similarly I suppose I've been interested in, you know, decarbonisation, environmental sustainability for a long time. Worked in community development. I now live on the Isle of Colonsay um, and again, when this project came along, it was sort of a, a natural overlap of many different strands.

Becky: I'm so excited to talk to you both today. And I mean, I just, I listened to, to what you both have been saying about how you got into this and I can just, part of me just wishes that I I was there and living on these beautiful islands and involved as well. Um, but I think it'd be great to maybe get a little bit more background into this.

So a lot of people listening won't know anything about the Scottish Government's Carbon Neutral Islands programme. So Darragh, maybe you could give us a little bit of an overview of what this programme is and more importantly, why it's needed so badly. 

Darragh: Yeah, so there's The Carbon Neutral Islands Project, um, is a Scottish Government initiative to support six of the Scottish Islands to, uh, transition to net zero by 2040. It, uh, helps to meet some of the commitments in the National Islands Plan also contributes towards the wider Scottish Government ambition, the target for net zero by 2045. I suppose the Scottish islands are going to be at the forefront of the impacts of climate change. They're obviously vulnerable to sea level rises, you know, increased storms.

And they also present opportunities, I suppose, to, to demonstrate some of the possibilities for decarbonisation, some of the possibilities for community-led decarbonisation plans. Yeah, so I think that is sort of where the, the project has, has grown out of. 

Matt: So if I can maybe come in here, and I'll open this up to Rosie as well. Why do we need this programme? I'm assuming it's because Scotland's islands haven't been or, or weren't decarbonising quickly enough. I mean, is there, is this, is this problem more, potentially more acute than on the mainland? 

Rosie: So, on, from a Raasay perspective, on an island, there obviously are some unique challenges when you're decarbonising. Things are more spread out, and in general, there isn't really many set solutions yet, I suppose, so communities haven't really been taking them up. I mean, there are loads of great community action initiatives around the Highlands and Islands, but I suppose we kind of need to start looking at creating a wider-reaching plan on how we decarbonise.

Becky: Tell us about some of the exciting initiatives that you just mentioned. What, what's, what's happening already that, that we can maybe learn more about? 

Rosie: There are huge amounts, so we are, there's so many different community renewable projects around Scottish Islands in general. Um, I suppose just on Raasay we have community-owned hydro schemes, we have community food initiatives, we've got a local community walled garden, beach clean efforts.

And because in, well, on islands and in smaller communities in general, there is, there's a lot of cohesion, everyone knows everyone, these projects make a big impact. So the primary school becoming, doing Eco Warrior stuff has a great knock-on impact into the wider community. Um, so, yeah, these projects, smaller projects, actually make a big difference in areas like this.

Matt: Darragh, is this something you recognise, maybe from a more bird's eye view of different island communities, that actually starting from a very strong position in terms of community cohesion, um, but also that there are maybe some unique, not only opportunities, but unique challenges?

Darragh: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I guess first to say that, you know, all islands are obviously very different and have, are at different starting points, I suppose.

There's islands with large populations, relatively speaking, and islands like Raasay that are very small, where there's, you know, it's a very tight knit community. Everybody knows each other very, very well. So there's, there's certainly a lot happening across the islands, generally speaking, and part of what we're working on at the moment is trying to tie that all together and, you know, trying to bring the benefits of what the six islands have been working on so far and sharing that more widely, but also learning from, uh, what other islands that haven't been part of Carbon Neutral Islands so far, what they've been doing and, and bringing that good practice in as well and, and learning from that, so.

Yeah, I think as Rosie said, the, I suppose often smaller island communities, rural communities are very passionate about their local place, they care deeply about it. They're, uh, hefted to the land. They, they take responsibility for their, for their place. And I think if they can get the right support and are backed up, they are the best people to take decisions for their area, they will look after the long term sustainability of their place. 

Becky: It sounds like there are some real exciting opportunities because of how, you know, the islands are shaped and the people that live there and their connection to, to that place. Do you think that the islands have some unique challenges as well, um, and what, what do you see as being some of the biggest challenges in terms of achieving net zero in these places?

Rosie: Obviously, on an island, you've got the generic logistics are more complicated, costs are higher. As Darragh was saying, what's become really apparent from this project is that like every island and its community are very different. And of course there are commonalities. So I can speak for Raasay, the first thing I suppose is the ability to plan long-term community projects in general, and that's probably quite a wide reaching, um, challenge.

Because of the way everything is kind of set up, um, and anything you want to do that has significant carbon savings is a long-term project. And in general, what we found is the structures and support around decarbonisation sometimes have trouble translating well into rural and island communities into those environments.

So we are currently looking at a collective retrofit project on Raasay and to access these sorts of funding, it's all very one house-specific. When you're in a context, um, in a place like here, the nearest accredited contractor is going to be Inverness or further afield, so that's a three or four-hour journey. To access any of this sort of funding, you need to have these contractors be able to come and do the work for you. So stuff like this just makes everything a little bit more complicated.

Matt: That's interesting. So I think there’s, there's a point there about supply chain. I mean, I'm always mindful of where I'm located in Glasgow, I'm kind of the upper limit of where maybe deliveries, you know, will, will deliver free of charge and anything kind of north or west, uh, east of that, um, might, might, you know, incur a surcharge.

And I guess, you know, that's, that's about deliveries, but you're talking about kind of broader supply chain, getting somebody there, maybe to assess a place and, uh, even a lot of the work that you've been doing through the Carbon Islands around actually putting in place a kind of carbon baseline, a kind of audit of what your carbon is, getting people there to understand the scale and distribution of, of, of these emissions is challenging.

So is it about getting people into the right place at the right time at the right cost is, is a big headache? 

Rosie: Yeah, so I suppose, my head's very in the retrofit space at the moment, so that's probably the examples that I'm going to use.

Matt: No, please go, because we know that's a, we – sorry, I should say a previous episode we spoke to colleagues in Orkney who identified that as THE big issue, particularly in the context of how inefficient their housing stock was. So, so we recognise that as a real problem. 

Rosie: Yeah, so the best solution for us would be if we can up-skill local people and create the skills here that are needed to decarbonise. At the moment, there doesn't seem to be sufficient incentives for local contractors, et cetera, to go away and get the accreditation.

Um, that might, that will hopefully change in the future, but at the moment we've got the skills. They just don't have the incentive to go get the accreditation so that we can then access that funding to retrofit houses. 

Matt: I mean, I find that really interesting because my, as again, I'm not a, I'm not an islander, uh, you know, I'm just a visitor, frequent visitor. My sense of islanders is that they, again, I'm generalising, but will hold numerous different jobs or roles, some, some formal, some informal, but we, but will also be multi-skilled. So they can do multiple things. And so in many respects, you've kind of got that skills base to tackle a whole host of issues. But as you say about the accreditation.

So, Darragh there, skills, people, supply chains, is this something you're seeing maybe across different island communities? And if so, what's maybe a potential way forward here? 

Darragh: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I suppose islanders have always, out of necessity, they've had to be resourceful, you know, going back a long, long way. They've always had to make best use of the resources that they've had available. And I would say possibly one of the, the key strengths of islanders is the ability to adapt, the ability to, to change and to be resilient, um, challenges as they come along and to be flexible. You asked about the differences to the mainland.

I think Rosie probably touched on the logistical challenges but, you know, communities is about people and about relationships and about taking care of, of place. And that is equally as important in mainland communities. You know, there's loads of examples of mainland communities taking action and really strong community action.

So, um, I suppose there is something a wee bit unique about islands, but, um, I think, you know, it's not to say that mainland communities aren't as equally powerful or as equally, interesting examples. 

Becky: One thing that I'd love to pick up on, and you mentioned it there, Darragh, and I've really got this coming through strongly from you as well, Rosie, is around that, how engaged people are in this.

And, you know, I've, I've not spent as much time on the islands as either of you, not even as much as, as Matt has. But I have, um, through my, you know, through my history and also some of my travels seen that, in some parts of the world, in some places, you get a feeling of a much stronger connection to place, that kind of grounding in place and perhaps, um, engagement with what you're doing than in others.

Has that been like a real part and parcel of the the approach, like have people strongly engaged in the development of some of this work in the community climate action plans, like how, how have the communities been engaged? And in doing that, have you learned anything from that about maybe how to continue to inspire and support people from, like in participating that might provide useful lessons for other places as well?

Rosie: Yeah, so I'll maybe start with what we've kind of done in Raasay, um, so we started with data gathering. There's a huge lack of Raasay data. Um, and this wasn't just for the carbon audits.

We wanted to work with the Development Trust to kind of gain a snapshot of what Raasay was like in 2023. And we covered everything from housing, culture and land, to well being and demographics. All of it ended up being extremely relevant to our climate action plan. But this exercise kind of, it allowed us to introduce the project to the community.

So, we went around everyone's houses, and about half of people opted to do it online, but the other half, we sat down with a cup of tea and talked it through with them. And my colleague even ended up feeding someone's sheep. So, it took, it took a good few months. It took a good few months, and it was a huge amount of one-on-one engagement, but it really got people on board with our project, just because you were able to put that time aside to just chat to them. And from there we kind of created the carbon audits and the stuff that we had gathered informed our energy and transport audit. We got in consultants to do the land use, land use change, forestry, agriculture and waste stuff. But we used those audits as tools for community engagement.

So we kind of presented the findings to everyone and held kind of facilitated conversations around transport, energy, land and marine environment and food and waste, um, to get everyone to start thinking and generating ideas. And then these ideas that were generated, we held multiple drop-in sessions alongside this, whittled them down to 27, and then we got everyone to come on board and prioritise these.

And then those actions, they form the basis of the Community Action Plan. So, when engaging with the community, I think everyone was on Raasay everyone's been really, like, really on board with the project. I think because it's really easy to see how it connects to everything that people care about, I suppose.

Matt: Yeah, and congratulations on, on that process. I mean, I've had a quick look through the community climate change action plan that you produced, and that point about data, you know – too often people jump right into “Well, what are your priorities, community? You know, tell me and then we'll run with them”. But there's so much background and calibration that needs to happen through a combination of quantitative and qualitative data to say “Well, this is what Raasay or another island looks like today, which gives you a sense of what it could look like tomorrow. Not only in terms of what the challenges are but also what the potential opportunities are". I mean, the data is also important, right, for a funder, whether it's Scottish Government looking at this and saying, “Well, this is, you know, maybe where I'm going to channel funding into this area or that island versus another”.

But what I really like, Rosie, there is about the auditing. Actually, the footprinting becomes an integral part of that engagement process, which I have to say I hadn't joined the dots before. And actually, you know, we find with these podcasts, humans are the type where they need a bit of warming up and also that relationship building – you can't just jump right in with the difficult questions, it's got to be that warming up. So I'm really, really glad to hear that. 

Rosie: I'll just quickly come in to say that, um, with the data gathering, you obviously, you know what your situation is on your island anyway, there's loads of anecdotal stories, but it's really important to have kind of the data to back that argument up, especially when you said, when you're looking for funding applications.

Everyone here knows that the housing situation is really bad, but we now have numbers and figures to show other people exactly what the housing situation is like. 

Becky: I think that's so powerful, having that. And, um, the other thing that I've really taken from what you've both said, though, is the power of communication.

So actually having those conversations with people, um, listening to them, getting their input. And, you know, it strikes me from, from places that I've lived that I've never really felt engaged in that capacity by my local authority or my local community, as they're looking to develop the Climate Action Plans.

Was the funding through the carbon neutral islands program, was that integral to the ability to deliver that? And do you think that we need to see this more pervasively if we're really going to start to see local climate action coming through strongly?

Darragh: I think you're right, the communication is key. As Rosie said, on their island, they know it intimately, and they are the experts in their area. So it's a case of gathering, you know, gathering what they're telling us, checking back that we've, that we've got it right.

That any plans or projects that come forward have community ownership, community buy-in, and are backed, and that it doesn't, it's not an imposition. And I think sometimes there can be some nervousness around the transition to net zero, that it's going to mean, you know, we're going to have to give up stuff or we're not going to be able to live life in the same way.

But actually, you know, if you speak to communities and you get their ideas on how they see the transition to net zero, you'll often find that there's going to be multiple benefits. You know that it's going to mean job creation locally, it's going to make it more viable for young people and families to live there.

Becky: And Rosie is that something that you've seen people getting excited about when you're having these conversations, you know, so not just thinking, “Oh my goodness, you know, what, what will happen? How do we make these changes?” But actually, do you start to see them getting excited about future opportunities as well?

Rosie: Yes, definitely. I think when you start to engage people right from the beginning, and they can see that what they think and what they're saying can actually have an impact on how, what's going to happen on the island in the next 20, 30 years, everyone starts to get more excited, everyone starts to get more engaged.

Um, and we've definitely seen that throughout the project as we've gone on and we're now just kind of starting to take these ideas into actions, because everyone's been involved right from the beginning, they're really excited and they're coming up to us and talking about the different projects that we're doing and yeah, just really excited to see things happening on the island.

Becky: The big goal of this project is, is working towards getting the, the islands carbon neutral by 2040. So, having gone through these, um, these data collection processes and, and forms of engagement, I mean, do you have a set of, these are the big things that we've learned that we now need to do to drive this forward?

And I mean, Darragh, I wonder if you can share some of the perhaps common ones or the kind of common things that need to be done, the changes that need to be made, um, across the islands. And then maybe Rosie, you can talk specifically to what you're seeing as well. 

Darragh: Well, one of the common themes coming out is certainly around grid constraints on the islands. So obviously, one of the best ways to decarbonise is to, you know, electrify, uh, heating in homes that relies on things like air source heat pumps. A lot of the islands, you know, have a limited grid capacity and so adding demand onto that grid can create problems, and there's, that is common across all the islands and, and something that needs to be looked at.

Rosie will probably speak about retrofitting, uh, homes, which is connected to that, because if homes are more efficient, then they require less energy input, which, you know, ultimately can reduce the demand on the grid. I think access to good public transport is also a common theme. I suppose people in remote areas tend to rely on their, on cars, on private cars, because public transport isn't as accessible.

So that is something that we've seen across the islands as well. Another common theme has been food production and the ability to supply local food rather than it relied on these long supply chains, you know, coming through mainland centres on ferries and, uh, into your island shop. Whereas I think people would really like to see more local food being grown and, um, you know, that's gonna be good for, for health. It's good for local environment and it also decreases reliance on those supply chains. 

Rosie: Yeah, so I can just come in. So on Raasay, the three themes that came through really strongly were housing energy efficiency, local renewables and local food. Housing was by far the most popular topic, I suppose. We have very damp and cold homes.

And what was really exciting for me to see actually doing this is the themes and the issues that the community wanted to tackle, not necessarily exclusively, exclusively for carbon reduction reasons, lined up with tackling our biggest carbon emissions. So housing, people wanted to tackle because their houses are cold and damp, but domestic heating is our biggest emission source.

Transport, people wanted improved public transport accessibility and maybe community minibus, etc., because they want to get around more easily. Our transport, our emissions per head for transport are really high because everyone, every household has multiple cars. So yeah, it was really exciting to kind of see that mesh together and actually what the community wants and the issues that they want to tackle maybe not because of purely carbon-cutting reasons result in, it's actually the way to go to reach net zero. 

Matt: Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. Net zero is not about, just about carbon. It's about how we get to a greener, happier, fairer future, and we cut emissions along the way. And I think, you know, you were speaking to much of that. So I think on that note, I'm going to just ask the both of you.

What is your vision for Scotland's islands come 2040? What, what are your hopes, if we sit here in 17 years time, whether it's the Isle of Raasay or other islands, six of the islands on the programme, or you take your pick. What do these islands look like, feel like to live and work, to visit? Are they radically different? Or are we looking at incremental changes here and there? What do they look like in 2040? 

Darragh: You know, I think it'd be really nice to see the islands being viable and attractive places for young people and families to live. That, you know, that has to be the future for the islands. There has to be the next generation coming through.

And, you know, young kids that are grown up on the islands, that have that passion for the place. That, that is a, that is a challenge, um, across all the islands in terms of like, employment, uh, affordable homes. So I would hope to see in the future that through initiatives like the Carbon Neutral Islands project that there's multiple benefits coming out for communities and it makes it overall an attractive place to be.

I'd like to see more affordable access to land so that that heritage of crofting and land stewardship can continue. Yeah, I would like to see the islands as places where, you know, we've demonstrated that community-led action, when you put the power in local people's hands and you back that up with the support and resources, you can see the possibilities and you can see that those folk are going to make the best decisions for the long-term future.

Matt: Okay, thank you. Now, Rosie, Raasay – 17 years ago was 2006; 17 years time is 2040. Is Raasay going to feel as different today as it did versus 2006 or fundamentally change? Are we talking sort of Jetsons era, completely unrecognisable? How does it feel and look like in 2040? 

Rosie: I think the general feel of Raasay will be much the same. But I would love to have healthy homes, energy self-sufficiency, accessible public transport and a little bit more agency over land. I think that is four very, um, realistic, actually, scenarios for 17 years time. 

Matt: Brilliant. Well, I look forward to seeing how this progresses, and all the very best of luck for the next few years.

Rosie: Thanks for having us. 

Darragh: Thank you. It's been lovely to speak with you. 

Becky: So Matt, what a, what an interesting episode. And I mean, I really enjoyed learning a little bit more about, about the Carbon Neutral Islands program, but I have to say, I think I took, I guess, two main things away from that. And the first was the power of data, local, specific data, and then using that to really effectively engage people. I thought that was a really, really interesting concept. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Becky: But the other big thing I took away was actually when we came to talk about, well, what are, what are the big changes that now, now you've got that data, that needs to be made. I think a lot of those issues are issues that we hear local communities talking about all over Scotland and the, and the wider UK. You know, we see grid constraints up and down the country. Um, we see poor housing needing to be addressed everywhere. We see problems with supply chains all over the place. We're seeing lots of local authorities wanting to work on more access and better access to, to public and active transport.

And so I thought, actually there's, you know, there's a lot we can possibly learn in here from how they're doing it. There is that could be really applicable to other communities across the UK. 

Matt: Yeah, so my sense of when you kind of get down to the community level, “Matt, what do you mean by community?” Okay, well, let's, let's just draw, draw a, um, ring around a relatively small group.

Let's call it 500 people, maybe even, maybe even a thousand. You're into a bit of a data desert at this point, you know, in terms of, well, you pick it, right. And if it's, if it's not in the census, um, and you're starting to move into things like energy performance certificates or fuel poverty, um, it's difficult to get this stuff.

And so then, you know, where, what we heard from Rosie there is, I mean, to kind of outlay quite, you know, a significant amount of money and time to collect this data, often with consultants, the upside being actually a really good platform for engaging your community before you start asking some of the really difficult questions like, “What do you want come 2040, and how do you want to do it?”

Becky: Well, for sure. And, you know, I, I often think about just that massive challenge that was clearly close to Rosie's heart as well of, you know, needing better and healthier homes. And the idea that we're going to deliver that through just some kind of anonymous government incentive for clean air heat technologies to me is just bananas.

And so this, this notion of actually, well, let's get the data, but. Have somebody talk to you and support you and guide you through that process and work with you to change as part of that community. I mean, it's just…

Matt: Yeah.

Becky: To me, that is the way to do it, right? 

Matt: And again, we heard, and we've heard this on other pods, different communities, this kind of tagline of, um, you know, these islands, in this case, these islands or these island communities face, um, a shared set of opportunities and challenges to some extent, but no two islands are the same. Now, I'm not challenging that. That, that's, that's spot on, right? But actually having a kind of standardised, um, engagement process or the way that you go about funding these interventions and getting them out there when you're dealing with, you know, two very different communities, two, two very different geographies, two very different sets of opportunities and challenges.

This is a real headache. So I understand why Scottish Government have done this and understand why the lessons that are coming out of this are going to be relevant not just to Scotland, but to the wider world and vice versa. We need to be looking at how other island communities are being, uh, you know, being dealt with in part this net zero transition.

Transport came up time and time again: big distances, very low population densities, ferries. They are some of the most polluting you know, entities on planet earth. But having said that, some really interesting news out this week about Orkney trialing some electric, uh, ferries. So, you know, that's gonna be a big investment.

Um, but supply chains also an issue on these islands, although we have many, many multi-skilled, multi-talented people living on these islands who are having to turn their, their hands to multiple things. And grid constraints: real issue. But I come back to this, that the bones of these island communities, and we can translate this into Highland communities and, and other isolated communities.

The bones is that there is a sense, very strong sense of community there, because they need a strong community to thrive and prosper there. I actually, I don't know about you Becky, I often feel that's lacking in some urban contexts, particularly maybe suburbia where, you know, I kick around and spend far too much of my time. Um, we need a bit of that. And we could do with learning a bit about that and how to put those, those building blocks in place. 

Becky: Absolutely. And building the community to build the change together, I think’s absolutely critical. So lots to learn and we'll have to keep on top of that programme as it continues to progress forward.

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Becky: Bye.