93: Community Benefit Funds - what does success look like?
Matt and Becky return from their Easter breaks to welcome Rachel Searle, Head of Communities and Impact at Foundation Scotland, and Fiona Smith, chair of Glenkens and District Trust, to discuss the successes and difficulties of community benefit funds from two different perspectives.
https://www.glenkenstrust.org.uk/
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
[music flourish]
Matt: Local Zero is brought to you by the University of Strathclyde, home of the Strathclyde Institute for Sustainable Communities.
Matt: Hello and welcome to Local Zero with Matt and Becky.
Becky: It's so good to be back after our very long and relaxing Easter break. Today we're joined by Rachel Searle, Head of Communities and Impact at Foundation Scotland, and we're also joined by Fiona Smith. Smith, Chair of the Glenkens District Trust.
Becky: We'll be learning more about Community Benefit Funds and what a successful model can look like.
Fiona: Seed funding can help develop and grow an idea that other funders might have been less willing to do.
Rachel: The key thing is keeping the community at the heart of decision making. And that is one thing that makes for a successful fund, whatever its structure.
Matt: A reminder to all listeners that LinkedIn is now the place to follow LocalZero. Ask any questions, suggest any episodes, just type LocalZero podcast into the LinkedIn search bar. And thanks so much to all of you who have joined already. Really appreciate the follows and the chat that's happening over there.
Becky: And do make sure you hit the subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcasts so that new episodes of Local Zero are there in your inbox as soon as they become available.
Becky: So Matt, it's. Been a wee while since our last episode. How have you been? Have you had a good Easter holiday?
Matt: Yeah, I did. I mean, it feels, Easter feels like a lifetime ago. The last pod I think I recorded feels even longer. So, um, we had a lovely time. We, for our sins, drove all the way from Scotland down to the southwest of England.
Becky: Wow, in the EV?
Matt: Well in a, in a plugin hybrid, which probably covered the first 13 miles, but not the next three 50 . Um, but we didn't quite get as far as, uh, where you are in Cornwall. But, um, we, we got a good way and pulled back via whales, which was, um, really interesting. I have to say where we were staying was on a little farm there and, um, around about the same time, there were various news articles coming out about the state of Britain's farms and the crops and the cattle and to sort of be there for a few days, it was really frightening to see it firsthand, but to also just sense the sort of existential dread and stress from the farming community.
Matt: So, um, yeah, hope things are better and things are drying out because it was pretty soggy. How about yourself?
Becky: Yeah, it had been pretty soggy hadn't it over that period. Uh, certainly a lot drier now, though. I don't think that the Easter break wasn't, uh, we, we had a great time. We used the opportunity to get back in the sea.
Becky: So it'd been quite a long time since, uh, since me and the kids had been in the sea and we took the opportunity of Easter to, to reconnect with that beautiful part of our life.
Matt: You're, you're very lucky. I am jealous and hoping, uh, my kids don't know what surfing is. It's a pretty abstract concept to them. So pretty jealous.
Matt: For us, we've got the launch of our new Strathclyde Institute for Sustainable Communities coming up in 21st of May. So that is, as we speak, just under a month away. So panic stations, um, yeah, looking forward to that. Uh, and I think just a, just a little plug on that before I hand over, if anybody is interested in joining, who is not far away, happy, wanted to drop in.
Matt: Do give me an email if you're interested and you like this pod, you'll probably like the launch and the Institute is funding the pod, so they kind of go hand in hand, so just, uh, yeah, hit me up and let me know.
Becky: Tell us a little bit more about this institute, Matt, because I mean, the topic couldn't be more beautifully aligned with what we've been talking about for the last few years and what we all really care about.
Becky: So this is something that's really very, very close to your heart.
Matt: It is. So in many respects, the podcast Inspired the Institute. So, uh, what is the pod all about really is what about the Institute is going to focus on over the coming years. And it's really about unlocking grassroots sustainability action and trying to unlock that sort of community, that local energy in terms of tackling the climate crisis and along the way, trying to empower and enrich communities.
Matt: So yeah, lots to do on that front. And I think it's fair to say, uh, there's more and more column inches given over to the impact on communities of net zero and sustainable development. So we're going to be right in the mix there.
Matt: And I'm sure you'll be interested to follow along too, because I know this is your bag as well.
Becky: Absolutely. So, some very exciting stuff, personal, professional. Let's talk about the less exciting stuff that has happened and that we've seen in the news. Uh, and I think we've, we've got to start with Scotland and it's, uh, 2030 net zero target.
Becky: Right, Matt?
Matt: Yeah. So this has been something that, I think has been on the horizon for a little while. So, um, for the uninitiated, uh, Scottish government has had a 2030 carbon target, and this has, uh, now been dropped on the basis that the climate change commission effectively said in its most recent progress review, you are not going to meet this Scotland.
Matt: There is no practical way that you are going to realize this. And it's difficult to spotlight Scotland in a positive light on this front in terms of setting a target and then not being able to realize it. Credit where credit's due, they listen to the CCC, and this has been removed. And I think it's important to note that this hopefully unlocks a bit more of a realistic discussion about, what Scotland can realize and by when rather than chasing kind of fairly fictitious target.
Matt: However, the 2045 target and the net zero target remains. So what it does effectively mean is that that cliff has just got a lot steeper in terms of decarbonizing. But yeah, interestingly, I guess this filtered down south because it's been pretty big news up here.
Becky: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I saw it online and certainly saw it when work colleagues sent it to me, my mum actually sent me the news article first.
Becky: So certainly something that, uh, is, you know, pervasive. I think there were kind of, for me, it sort of makes me question that. The later targets, because as you say, you're like a steeper cliff now for 2045 for Scotland. But really, I think we need to see some very ambitious policies and strategies in place to deliver that.
Becky: So I think, you know, folks have been saying for a while, it's all very well and good having a target, but actually, how are we going to get there? How are we going to deliver it? For a lot of those key areas, we don't seem to have that kind of national leadership. It's a bit of a void, I think.
Matt: My reflections are, you know, the removal of this 75 percent reduction in 1990 levels for Scotland, um, which was a 2030 target that's been removed.
Matt: That signaled ambition, okay, in terms of where you want to go. The question of whether that was matched with ambition about how we're going to get there, I think remains a very open question. And I think this, to be honest, you know, the UK, Scotland in particular, one of the first movers into this space about targeting net zero.
Matt: I think this, this is a warning if I'm honest to the rest of the world about having realistic, credible, legitimate targets that can and will be reached because each time you set something and miss it. It does then erode the legitimacy of the direction of travel. So I'm glad it's changed because I don't think we were going to get there on recent performance.
Matt: Um, but what they do now matters even more. So what do you change a target, but double down on effort? That would be, be my hope. So, yeah, so we'll, we'll, we'll see what happens. Um, plenty more in the news. You picked up a really interesting one around some good news stories for other countries.
Becky: I did. Yeah. So this is, this is the news that there are now seven countries who are generating very close to a hundred percent of their electricity from renewables.
Becky: So those seven countries are Albania, Bhutan, Nepal, Paraguay, Iceland, Ethiopia. And the DRC,
Matt: um, and that is,
Becky: yeah, testament to their use of geothermal, hydro, solar, and wind power. And this is very exciting. Although when you look at this on a map of the world, it's still a very, very small percentage. It's a very small area.
Becky: That said, there are 40 more countries that are generating at least 50 percent of their electricity from renewables, including 11 in Europe. I want to make a little slight note here that we're talking. about electricity, not about all energy. And so, you know, when I first read this, I think I kind of felt, wow, this is amazing.
Becky: I was like thinking all energy, energy completely. Of course it's not. And so I guess for me, it really says, you know, this is, this is great. It's real step forwards and real progress. But I think for a lot of countries, bigger challenges that are going to need to be addressed are decarbonization of heat.
Becky: Decarbonization of transport and industrial emissions. I haven't mentioned food and land use, obviously, other massive topics as well.
Matt: And another one that really caught my eye that links into that last point you made is plastic. Okay, so, um, I often think that plastic is framed as a sort of, as an environmental challenge outwith Climate normally, uh, in more informed circles, it's very much part and parcel.
Matt: Okay. Because plastic manufacture very much, you know, embedded in the oil industry. Uh, but if I asked you a question, I'll have to say, if, if somebody asked me this before I read the story, I would, I really wouldn't have had a clue. So, but I, I'm going to put you on the spot. Okay. What percentage of what global carbon emissions do you think are associated with the manufacturing of plastic?
Becky: And these are emissions just in that manufacture process, does it include like
Matt: I've got plastic creation here, so make of that what you will, um, but try and, try and pin the tail on the donkey.
Becky: Global myth. Okay, um, I mean, what, 15%? That sounds like a lot. It is.
Matt: That is, that's, that's high. Five percent, which I have to say, my jaw still hit the floor. That is huge. The reason, it is huge.
Matt: And the, the, uh, article that the, the Guardian were carrying here was that plastic production emissions could triple to one fifth of earth's carbon budget. Now that is frightening and actually so frightening. This inspired me to reach out to, um, organisation does a lot of work in Scotland called zero waste Scotland, uh, about how we can not just, you know, improve, uh, recycling and, and, and, uh, reuse to reduce his emissions, but actually to reduce consumption.
Matt: Plastic is obviously an important part of that. So I think this is a real hot topic and when you hear plastic, you should hear carbon as well.
Becky: Wow. And that you're right. It doesn't initially come to my mind when I hear plastic so.
Matt: No, you don't. Um, but maybe if I can very briefly and on, on this item that I saw, and I just wanted to get your, your gauge on this because you are Cornwall based, um, you're not a million miles away from Dartmoor.
Matt: Um, and Dartmoor has been in the news a lot recently for the right to roam. So, uh, Dartmoor was one of the few, if only places in Britain, or at least wildernesses in Britain that had a very long standing relationship with the community and just citizens generally, people could had a right to roam there.
Matt: The rest of England. No, Scotland obviously has, has this, and this has been legislated in, in law since the early two thousands. This was amended or at least challenged. Um, sorry, I think it was amended and then challenged in court by right to roam activists. Now what this has led to at least catalyzed is a broader right to roam movement, and there are various pretty loud and really interesting commentators on this. The likes of Nick Hayes, who wrote a fantastic book called the book of trespass, which I highly recommend. And not only are they pushing for the right to roam, but their, their shtick is if we don't have access to the countryside, how will we know how to protect it?
Matt: If we can't access nature, how do we understand its value and how it can best be protected? And they're starting, um, there's a movement which, um, you know, it's been, been flagged, uh, various circles about how environmental activism could be the watchword for the coming election. Um, and this idea of wild service.
Matt: So it's this sort of national service, but grassroots community led, uh, individuals, neighbors, communities getting together and doing something for nature together. And I just thought that was a really interesting notion, wild service. So I wanted to get your initial kind of reactions to that.
Becky: I mean, it's so interesting and having spent, you know, quite a few years living up in Scotland and sort of becoming accustomed to that, that right to roam that you have throughout, throughout Scotland is, it does feel odd to me that the rules are so different in England.
Becky: Um, I think though, Now that I live in a tourist destination, one of the things that I'm acutely aware of is the way that is, is the different levels of understanding that people have around the natural environment. I mean, the sand dunes are a prime example because I, I frequently see people with their kids, um, taking their body boards and like sliding down the sand dunes and you can just see them sort of like all of this leading to increasing levels of erosion.
Becky: And of course, a lot of people don't even see that, don't even think about it, haven't got that, that mindset at all. And so I can see risks to this if, if it's opened up without that kind of, those broader conversations, that broader education, that said, I absolutely agree that people need to be engaged and involved and able to participate in nature.
Becky: And I think only by opening that up and creating those connections. Do you also create. The care and the compassion that will lead to people becoming those protectors as well. So yeah, I can see both sides, but definitely, definitely excited about this.
Matt: Today's theme, today's topic, community benefit funds.
Matt: Um, something that you've dealt with much with Regen.
Becky: In some ways, yes. Uh, I mean, definitely the work that Fraser and I did last year with Scottish government looking at the role of, uh, local and community energy, community benefit funds was a big part of that discussion, uh, as one element or one mechanism through which communities can be benefited by renewable generation or other sort of energy infrastructure and assets in their areas.
Becky: So, uh, definitely something that, that has come across, but certainly something that I think's an interesting topic from, um, especially from that kind of justice lens and, and you know, the two sides of it, you know, making sure that those communities, uh, are able to benefit from things being developed in their areas.
Becky: Uh, but also for me, I'm, I'm interested in also thinking about, you know, well, what about the communities that might be tangential to that or aligned with that? I think there's definitely some, some things to dig into around this.
Matt: Well, um, we're going to have the opportunity and we'll, we'll also dig into detail about what we mean by community benefit fund, but just to blast the jargon straight away. I think we can very briefly, basically describe them as funds set up explicitly for communities. However you want to define that community that will channel some degree of the revenues of a project, normally a renewable energy project, uh, into that community to create lasting benefit. Now we're going to get into the weeds on this.
Matt: There's plenty to talk about, but I think you're already asking the good question. So let's get the experts in to answer those.
Rachel: Hello, my name's Rachel Searle and I'm head of communities at Foundation Scotland.
Fiona: Hello, I'm Fiona Smith and I'm chairman of Glenkens and District Trust.
Matt: Wonderful. Well, welcome, Rachel. Welcome Fiona to Local Zero. I have been looking forward to doing this episode for a wee while now. For those who've been on this road with us for a long time, we've covered this a couple of times now, and we thought we needed to pause as community benefit funds going to keep coming back like a boomerang into the newsfeed.
Matt: Let's begin at the very beginning. What is a community benefit fund. Uh, I wonder Rachel, whether we might begin with you, uh, giving your work with Foundation Scotland.
Rachel: Thanks Matt. So in the UK, at least community benefit funds are certainly a feature of the renewables industry. And they're usually defined as a voluntary or goodwill contribution that's donated by the owner of a renewables project. For the benefit of the communities affected by that project.
Rachel: How you define communities affected could be a whole other podcast. So let's leave, let's leave that
Matt: and indeed it has been quite right.
Rachel: I think we're saying as well that the funds, funds are separate and ideally additional to any other kind of economic benefit that might kind of flow or maybe trickle, um, or appear at all, uh, or not into the area via jobs or kind of local expenditure when the project is being built.
Rachel: They can be very different in their governance and structure and size and scale, but I guess one thing that helps define a community benefit fund, Matt, is that it is actually in the jurisdiction of the community to decide on the strategy and spend of that money. That makes, that sets it apart from kind of what I call conventional funding into the community sector in the UK.
Fiona: The, the great thing about community benefit funds for rural communities is that it allows those communities impacted by the wind farm developments to have money that comes into its area that it has control over. And it's been Interesting for us within our rural community to see the changes that have come about within the community of actually having some funds that are within the control of the community to spend.
Fiona: And I also reinforce the point that Rachel has made about them being different from any investment within the community or shared ownership or creation of jobs. They are money that is a voluntary payment, but it is within the community to decide how to use those monies.
Becky: I'm wondering maybe if we can also step back for a moment.
Becky: Like, how did this come about? Why did this come into being? Like, why do we have this in the UK? Is this. Is it commonplace in other, in other places or is this quite unique to the UK?
Rachel: I think it depends who you ask and then who you, who you ask might use, different people use different kind of language. So let me, let me try and bring that alive a bit.
Rachel: I think if you dare I say, talk to maybe the anti wind brigade. They will say these funds have come about because communities have needed to be bribed to accept that these, these industrial size things are going to land in their rural communities. So, I think some would say they have come about for that reason.
Rachel: Others, and I've seen local authorities use this language, others would say that they are compensation for the negative impact of these And then if you talk to a developer, they will often talk about wanting to share the benefits and provision of a fund is one way to do that. Sometimes if you talk to a community, they'll just say, they're quite frankly, bloody grateful to have anything that comes their way, you know, in terms of, in terms of unrestricted cash.
Rachel: I think though, It's worth noting that I think there is a bit of a heritage of provision of funds for kind of industrial type activity in a, in a community. So coal mining communities have had access to funding for, for many years. Funds exist around some of our nuclear facilities and have done for a long while.
Rachel: And maybe that has its roots in philanthropy. I actually have yet to come cross. And I don't know, Matt and Bex, you're the ones who will know this, a kind of study that is looking into the history of community benefit funds.
Matt: Absolutely. And Fiona, I wonder if I could ask you please, uh, from the perspective of, uh, Glenkins, um, District Trust, we've, I understand that you're connected to at least one or more community benefit funds.
Matt: The Black Craig Wind Farm is one of them. I just wondered from from the perspective of maybe yourself, but also the community more broadly, what's the perspective? amongst you about why there is this fund? I mean, there's, I just find this interesting that maybe different communities have a different perspective about the, the implicit or explicit value of a, of a wind farm and why that fund exists.
Matt: Is there a consensus or is it just completely depends on who you ask?
Fiona: I, I think it depends on who you ask within communities and Rachel touched on that and her explanation about some people see it as a bribe, some people see it as compensation. I think from our perspective and In Glenkens District Trust, we feel that the good practice principles say that the developers should pay these monies to the impacted communities.
Fiona: So in truth, we don't spend too much time thinking about the why's and wherefores of how this is being paid. We're actually more interested in ensuring the monies are paid in a timely way and that we can get the outputs from that, those monies within our communities. We, we've done something I think that is quite unusual within our structure in as much as we're, we're a, as I said, a Scottish charitable organisation that has our local community councils as members.
Fiona: So we've got eight community councils who are the members of our charity and able to appoint trustees. So we've got a democratic link back to the community councils, but very early on, and after I got involved in that, we actually created clear roles and responsibilities between ourselves and the community councils.
Fiona: So the community councils deal with the consent aspects, the planning aspects, the construction aspects of it. And our role is to deal with any community benefit that comes as a result of it. We pride ourselves on being completely neutral on the bias and way of force of the wind farm. Our role is simply to make sure the money comes in, is used properly, and our communities benefit.
Fiona: And that division of accountabilities, I think, has helped the community to understand what our role is.
Becky: In advance of this conversation, I'd done some, uh, some searching around, uh, around community benefit funds, um, online. And I will say that so much more comes up for Scotland than England to start with. Not exclusively, but it's a lot easier to find, but there is, um, and then the second thing I found was The news article about the work that Rachel, you're a matter about to embark on through the new, uh, Strathclyde Institute for Sustainable Community.
Becky: So all good stuff, but I did find a map that local energy Scotland have put out there on their website, community benefits map, and it allows you to see different sorts of projects. You can look at renewable projects, but particularly you can filter out to look just at projects with community benefits.
Becky: And then one of the things you can do is drill down to understand the different areas. Of spend, and it looks very, very diverse actually. And I'm wondering, Rachel, from your perspective, like coming in as Foundation Scotland, like, can you maybe give us a bit of an overview of what you're seeing across the landscape in terms of the sorts of, uh, the sorts of benefits that communities are receiving in terms of, you know, the distribution of size, but also the distribution of like how they're being used.
Rachel: Big question. I'll try and be concise, but I will just put a bit of a health warning on that resource you quoted, if that's okay.
Becky: Oh yeah, absolutely.
Rachel: Because there it is incomplete. It is out of date. It is a good effort at trying to capture in one single kind of platform community benefit activity across Scotland.
Rachel: It is under review at the moment and there's a commitment to improve it significantly. So in terms of sums, the good practice principles promote the sum of £5, 000 per megawatt of installed megawatt. So for some large projects with, you know, 50 plus turbines, you could be talking about, you know, significant hundreds of thousands.
Rachel: We're supporting a fund at the moment that is 1. 2 million a year coming into four communities across East Ayrshire and Dumfries and Galloway. Smaller projects. might result in, you know, something around 15k a year for a community. Two key things about the setup. One is, ideally, the funds are recommended to be index linked.
Rachel: So, much as there's been a lot of hardship in the last couple of years with cost of living biting really hard, communities with community benefit funds have been doing okay. And they have seen some significant uplifts in their annual payments in the last couple of years. The other key thing about a community benefit fund is it is fairly enduring for the operational lifetime of the asset.
Rachel: There has never been this kind of opportunity for communities before to have fairly assured income for what 10 years ago was likely to be 25 years, but now with new technology is kind of reaching up to 40 years. This is, incredibly unprecedented, and yet we accept that it's also unequal and quite unfair.
Rachel: Because if you don't live in a windy place or a wet place or whatever that has hydro going on in the backyard, then you don't necessarily have access to this money. So I think in terms of benefits, I think the first I'd say, and Fiona can really speak to this as well, is first and foremost, it's about process.
Rachel: And there is Massive impact both kind of psychologically and in lots of other ways for a community to have jurisdiction over money. Without the involvement, dare I say, of a local authority or the state. I think that is, that is unprecedented and that in itself is a significant impact because what comes with that is communities gaining confidence, communities having to talk to each other more, communities having to deal with internal conflicts and people having different views and ideas and having to compromise and reach consensus.
Rachel: So if you're having to do that about money. And you can get to a place to have consensus about money. Think what else you can achieve. So I think that is, that is a huge area of unnoticed and quite invisible impact going on across communities with community benefit funds. And maybe Matt, at some point you can do a huge piece of research on that.
Rachel: I think that's. Work needing to be done.
Matt: I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. And I wondered from, from Fiona's perspective, whether she shares the same view. I mean, Fiona, it'd be great to hear from Glenkins and district trust. Some of the kind of on the ground impacts that you've had through the types of projects you funded, but also as Rachel says, some of the kind of implicit longer burn, maybe more sort of community oriented to the changing of the fabric of, of, of, you know, your community, uh, on the back of this, these, uh, these pavements.
Fiona: Yeah, I mean, we've now been dealing with community benefit payments for four and a half years, and we get about 250, 000 per annum coming into our community. It is 10 community councils with a population of about three and a half thousand and I think seven or eight small villages. So it's quite a dispersed community.
Fiona: And it's, it has absolutely been journey and an evolution on how the monies have been used. To start with, we were focused on getting what I call the noise out of the system. That we'd been waiting for these community benefits to come for quite a long time. There was quite a lot of pent up demand for kitchens and village halls and various other bits and pieces that needed to be dealt with.
Fiona: We needed to get money out there and for people to see some of the benefits. But thereafter, I think we've been much more thoughtful about what does a community need in the long term to make a change and to make us a thriving community over the long term. And we, Work very hard together as community groups to develop a shared vision and there is absolutely no doubt to my mind that the fact that we've had money to give out and we've awarded working together that has helped actually to glue our communities together and to see the benefits of working.
Fiona: Not just within Glenkens District Trust but I think the wider Glenkens community after it did its community action plan. Realize that if we didn't put some heft behind getting the actions identified in the plan carried forward. The plan could be a nice piece of wallpaper that didn't, uh, actually create a change in the long term.
Fiona: So, we worked, uh, we in the Glenkens District Trust did award some monies to different groups to actually do some evidence gathering about how could you solve some of the issues that were identified in the plan. And on the back of that evidence, then awarded monies to different groups to take it forward.
Fiona: The other thing we also realized was that when we looked at the community action plan, there were some activities that the community felt needed to be done, but there was no local group picking that up. So we actually commissioned ourselves some research to actually help inform how we could solve some of these problems.
Fiona: And I think that's one of the advantages that working with Foundation Scotland has brought to us is using different ways to, to utilize the community benefit monies rather than us, uh, application and award process. So being a little bit more thoughtful around some of those issues. There was absolutely a recognition in our community action plan that, We had a lot of public buildings across the area.
Fiona: Rural Scotland on the whole has lots of public buildings. Each village has its village hall. And we recognized that if we were going to be more efficient in the longer term, we needed to work more closely together. So we commissioned some research to look into how could we do that. And now we've funded someone one day a week.
Fiona: To work, to run what's called a public spaces network to actually facilitate the community hall, the community spaces working together, which means for things like insurance and energy and electricity supply and such like the start and putting events on the starting to see the benefit of all working together.
Fiona: Local food production and less food miles was identified as a key part of our community action plan. And again, we awarded some money for an organisation to do some research on how we could deal with that. And on the back of that, awarded some money to an organisation to set up a Glen Cairns food hub, which brought together local producers and local demand to buy locally produced meat, vegetables, bakery, you name it, it's in there.
Fiona: When we, as a group of trustees looked at the application for that, it was quite a high risk thing for us to put our money in because there's no, there was no track record. There was no business plan that showed this would be really, it was definitely going to work, but we felt it was important that we actually had a shot at it.
Fiona: So we, we, we put money into that. It has now grown and it's now a gallery, you know, an area wide food hub that has expanded its area of operation. And I think it shows by giving some seed funding, it can help develop and grow an idea that other funders might have been less willing to do.
Becky: I love that Fiona. I think that it's really, it's really interesting and kind of inspiring to hear you, you speak about all these different things and, and the, the notion of sort of taking this risk, but in a way that, you know, there's clearly a sort of strong governance and accountability structures behind what you're doing, which, which is absolutely critical, I guess.
Becky: I do want to Dig in a little bit more. And Rachel, you said defining community is an entire episode and it is, but I do want to just dig into some of these bits a little, a little more because I am wondering a couple of things. I guess firstly, I'm wondering, you know, how, how did it come about that you were identified by the developer.
Becky: You know, what was, what was it that kind of made them come to you? Did, did the, uh, did the trust already exist? Uh, was it, was it an easy thing or was it something that needed to be set up in order to, to support the distribution of these funds?
Becky: Um, and, um, and then maybe Rachel, you can also help perhaps explain from a broader point of view, like whether this sort of level of widespread local and community action that Fiona has been talking about is something that's replicated, um, replicated in other funds. But maybe Fiona, you can start just by giving a little bit of that back, uh, backstory around kind of how this came to be in terms of those operational elements.
Fiona: I took over this as chairman of Glenkens district trust as an independent chairman at a time when the trust had been formed, but was pretty unstable. I had two sort of conditions around taking on the role. The first was that the community councils did want a proper independent chairman who would drive this forward.
Fiona: And the second was that the communities involved in the trust We're prepared to work together and that any community benefit monies coming into the area should be in the basis of what we call the all for one and one for all principle and any award should be based on merit.
Fiona: And the first of those, irrespective of where a wind farm was built within those areas the community councils would agree that it would come into a composite pot. Now that was a way ahead of there being any, you know, proper, proper visibility of any wind farms coming, but we felt it was quite, I felt it was important to have that done. And then I also felt it was really important if we were going to drive community cohesion, that awards are based on merit rather than in some artificial allocation of 10 percent to this community council because it's within five kilometers and 20 percent to this community council because, so I, I was very clear.
Fiona: On that and quite surprising me, I got support for, for all of that. So those have been some of the principles that have driven us all the way through. I'm a lawyer by background. I was a corporate lawyer for virtually all of my career. So you can't take this legal background and some of those things out of me.
Fiona: But I hammered back through with the community councils and I went through them all individually, that when they appointed a trustee to sit around the Glenkens district table, that person was not there as a mouthpiece of the community council. They were there to act in the interests of Glenkens district trust.
Fiona: Yes, they could communicate back and they could bring ideas from the community council, but they weren't simply there to advocate the community council's views. And we do reinforce that, quite regularly. Um, but those are, you know, some of those principles of a one for all, all for one merit based awards acting in the interests of Glenkens and District Tust have been quite an important part of the glue that has held us together.
Fiona: The other very important part of what we do is ensure we are transparent.
Matt: Rachel, as, as we've said, Foundation Scotland has dealt with numerous communities across Scotland. Uh, you've got a really good sense, both in terms of breadth and depth of the different types of community benefit funds out there.
Matt: So just any reflections from you about any of the common commonalities or differences in terms of how these funds are structured and if there's any lessons around best practice about how these should be structured and governed, I think would be really, really helpful to our listeners.
Rachel: In terms of governance and structure, I would kind of make the point that governance is specifically about decision making.
Rachel: Okay, in our, in our, in our line of sight, governance is specifically about decision making and the power of decision making. So, for example, one model of a fund is where a third party, like ourselves, or like other providers, REAP is a provider that works in the northeast of Scotland and supports communities with community benefit funds.
Rachel: Where a third party holds the funds on behalf of a community and the community has a mechanism for making decisions and in effect the third party serves that body in the way that we We serve, we are, you know, in effect, Blenkensen District Trust is our client, you know, as much as the person who owns the wind farm.
Rachel: Actually, Fiona and her team are primarily our client to us and we hopefully treat them with that respect and give them the time they deserve to deliver what they're asking us to deliver. However, a community organisation, Matt, can also hold the funds themselves and make decisions on the money. They don't have to involve a third party.
Rachel: So another common arrangement is where an organisation that might already be established then holds the funds. A second example of a community, as it were, doing it for themselves, is where an organisation is formed specifically for the purpose of holding funds. However, they then have to distribute them as well.
Rachel: And often, as with, you know, Fiona's example, they might decide they don't want to get into the business of employing staff and taking responsibility for all that. And actually, um, all the, all the admin and, and kind of churn that comes with administering money. So they might contract that to a third party as well.
Rachel: So in terms of governance, the key thing, whether you're, you're actually working directly with a third party like ourselves or not, it's, it's, it's, Keeping the community at the heart of decision making and that, that is one thing that makes for a successful fund, whatever its structure, I would say as well, though, Matt, that what's important in thinking through structure and governance is kind of the air of benefit and whether you're talking one community or 42 communities that will inform likely what the optimum structure is going to be sometimes if you've got a single community that might have a very active anchor organisation that is doing a lot of projects.
Rachel: It might be appropriate, and they might have the capacity to also hold the community benefit money and distribute some of it to its projects and some to others.
Becky: We could obviously keep talking about this for so much longer and, you know, probably, you know, have to think about, you know, if there's another episode on the horizon.
Becky: Um, but what do you think the, the future holds? So, uh, Fiona, I'd love to, you know, if you've got thoughts on what does the future hold for Glenkens District Trust and the community benefit funds you manage? And Rachel, what do you think the future holds for the sector more broadly?
Fiona: I, I, the uh, these are community benefit monies are a fantastic opportunity to empower communities to actually have control of some monies and to make a real difference in our communities.
Fiona: And I feel we're at this threshold of being able to do sort of transformational change within our communities because of the volume of new build that's coming through and. We need to focus on the outcomes we want to achieve and stop as a collective group across Scotland worrying too much about how, who controls these monies and work effectively together to get the best outcomes for our communities.
Rachel: I would just build on that if I, if I can, Bex, and say that I think, I think there's, um, there's, there's a lot of great practice out there to build on. And with, with more community benefit funds coming on stream, I think there's more opportunity for more communities to have this opportunity. We do need to address the issue of, um, justice in all this and the issue of, um, equality.
Rachel: However, I think we shouldn't lose sight that I think community benefit funds were intended originally, primarily to be supporting, uh, communities most locally impacted by a project. I, I, I foresee a little bit of tension around that debate going forward, and I hope that doesn't detract from bedding in lots of new good community benefit arrangements going forward.
Matt: Thank you, Rachel, Fiona, fantastic. As community benefit funds are going to grow in size and geography, we need to get best practice, right? So I'm really, really happy. We've hopefully kickstarted this discussion today. Uh, and we will no doubt have you back to, to learn more in the future. So thank you for your time and please do come back again soon.
Rachel: Thank you very much.
Matt: So Becky has had to run to pick up the kids. So, so big thank you to Fiona and Rachel. Uh, you'll find all the relevant links to find out more about the show and about this theme in the notes for the episode on our website. Be remiss of me not to flag an advert that we currently have out for PhD, which will be part of the Strathclyde Institute for Sustainable Communities.
Matt: Which will be supervised by myself, but also Dr. Jen Roberts, co director of the Strathclyde Institute for Sustainable Communities, which is titled, drum roll, please, for the best pun ever, a little less consultation, a little more action, please. And this is all about how we can support communities to plan forward their own action with regards to climate and sustainability.
Matt: So their own climate action plans. And we heard a little bit about that from Fiona in the episode today. So if you'd like to know more. Please get hold of us on our LinkedIn channel or at localzeropod@gmail.Com. And I'd be happy to forward on the information. Uh, and please, if you're interested or anybody else, just share it across your networks.
Matt: You've been listening to local zero. If you enjoy the pod, here are some quick things you can do to really help us out. First rate local zero, wherever you listen to your pods, five stars, of course. Second, find and connect us on LinkedIn. And third, if you listen on Apple podcasts, please, please leave a quick review to help drive us up the pod charts and reach more like minded people.
Matt: That's all from me today. Thank you for listening and until next time, goodbye. Produced
Fiona: by the Spoken Media.