94: Waste not, want not: leasing, fixing and borrowing to reduce consumption

How to reduce consumption and cut waste, with a focus on re-use and sharing. Joining the Local Zero team are Samantha Moir from Zero Waste Scotland, and Jo Hartga, who runs the Southside Tool Library at South Seeds, a Glasgow charity helping people to live more sustainably. 

AUDIO TRANSCRIPT

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Matt: Local Zero is brought to you by the University of Strathclyde, home of the Strathclyde Institute for Sustainable Communities.

Matt: Hello and welcome to Local Zero with Matt, Becky and Fraser.

Becky: This week we'll be learning more about reducing consumption and waste, with a focus on reuse and sharing. Joining us today are Samantha Moir from Zero Waste Scotland and Jo Hartga from Southseeds, a charity helping people in Glasgow to live more sustainably.

Samantha: Some people were a little bit nervous about buying secondhand, especially as a present for someone. And we've completely blown that out of the water. And now people are really joyfully, especially and specifically buying secondhand for their friend who's had a baby. And they want us to put a leaflet inside.

Samantha: They want the bag with the stamp on it. They want this person to know that they've happily bought it secondhand and that they're sharing that message. And I think that's huge.

Fraser: A reminder to all listeners that LinkedIn is now the place to follow LocalZero, ask any questions, and suggest any episodes. Just type LocalZero Podcast into the LinkedIn search bar to join the conversation.

Matt: And for episode transcripts and the ability to search episodes using keywords, our website localzeropod. com is where you should go. If you'd like to get in touch with us, you can email us at localzeropod@gmail.com. We're always keen to hear suggestions, critiques, and feedback.

Becky: And of course, make sure you hit the subscribe button wherever you listen so that new episodes of Local Zero are there as soon as they become available.

Matt: Right, folks. How are we? How has the last few weeks been? What's been on your plate? What's coming up?

Fraser: Uh, it's, it's been nice, Matt. It's been nice. It's been busy, but glad to finally feel, uh, the weather turning a little bit, you know, middle, middle of May. It's not a bad time to End winter, I suppose.

Matt: It's I find Scotland. Well, I know Becky's and the beautiful Cornish coast. Scotland's like that. It's like cold, cold, cold, cold, cold, lovely and warm. And the plants are like, Whoa. And all of a sudden you've kind of got the growing season is completely. Packed into this tiny period, but I, I am as we record in shorts, and this is the first time this year, so I'm happy.

Becky: Woo. How exciting. . Um, do you know what? I have felt like we had some beautiful sunshine a few weeks ago and it got a little bit warmer and we got all excited and started planting some new vegetables in the garden. Taking note from the episode, we did all about, you know, our gardens and what's to do there.

Becky: Mm-Hmm. . So we planted some strawberries. some tomatoes and some courgettes. And then about two days later, the weather turned and we had absolute gales.

Fraser: Uh, see, I've used the weather as an excuse for letting our garden go wild. And that is now the trajectory that we're on. Because it's past the point.

Matt: Through laziness.

Fraser: It's somewhat deliberate and somewhat convenient.

Matt: Well, whilst we share our sort of tips and trials and tribulations of growing sort of. tiny portion fruit and veg in our gardens. And I could bore all of our listeners with that. Um, I think we mentioned this in the last episode. This has been a really tough period for farmers in general, right?

Matt: I mean, you can't move for the column inches focusing on it being the wettest 18 months in, in the world. Not just living memory since records began now, I don't know you're in Cornwall, Becky Fraser, you're in the east coast of Scotland, I'm in the central belt of Glasgow. I didn't feel much wetter than normal for Glasgow, I mean, maybe it's just like, they're all pretty wet winters, but when I was down in England, my oh my, brutally wet and farmers at the moment are reeling, there's Fields being left fallow.

Matt: There's real concerns about food supply. Uh, Becky Fraser, any different where you are or is it all same old, same old?

Becky: Yeah, definitely, definitely been a feeling that it's a lot wetter. I mean, I do live on the coast as well, the West coast. And so used to a bit more rain, but it has felt pretty severe. But I will say this, like, I don't. I haven't seen the sort of the translation of that into what's available in the shops. And I think this is kind of indicative of a bit of a bigger challenge of the disconnect that we have between the food that we are producing and growing and then the food that we are able to buy. And I remember when I lived in New Zealand and you just couldn't get certain foods at certain times of year.

Becky: I mean, the price of a tomato or red pepper in the winter was just astronomical that we didn't eat it. It just wasn't something we'd think about doing. Whereas I think here, you know, it's been same old, same old in the supermarket. So I think it's going to be an interesting, uh, interesting to see what happens in the coming months.

Matt: It seems to be that not just the media, but the public is starting to connect the dots between food supply and climate change. And there's this realization. It's like, Oh my, if, if the fields are fallow, if the cattle haven't been out to, you know, enjoy the pasture, what does that mean for food supply? What does that mean for my wallet?

Matt: And I honestly think once the penny drops on that, It's something that I hope will galvanize a lot more climate action and support for climate action, because there's nothing that your average family, average person, uh, hates more than going to the supermarket and having to pay another 30, 40 percent or not being able to source what they, they want.

Matt: Um, and let's face it that the years that we've grown up, we've become accustomed to a world, uh, uh, the sort of opposite end of the spectrum of the one you've just painted, Becky, in Britain. You can get what you want whenever you want. If you have, you know, if you have the, if they have the money to buy it.

Matt: So yeah, I don't know. I feel like this is a real hot topic that's going to grow and grow and grow and be a real battleground.

Becky: Sorry, Matt.

Matt: No, seriously, no pun intended.

Fraser: The cost side of it I think is something we did see towards the end of last year, albeit it wasn't from the UK, but it was from heat towards the end of summer across Europe, making things like olives, olive oil, uh, the price of those shoot up, which drove, you know, a lot of price gouging by supermarkets, but it did drive a lot of inflation, which, which knocked onto cost of living.

Fraser: So the connections are clearly in my neck of the woods, up in the northeast in Angus, um, agriculture, growing food is One of, if not the main industry locally, we live in amongst 12 to 15 fields, all of which are for planting and growing.

Matt: And strawberries in particular around that area.

Fraser: Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, strawberries, potatoes, turnips, that kind of thing.

Fraser: And, and anything just about in between, but what we've usually what we notice around this time of year in the preceding months is just that hive of activity. Farmers moving field to field. There's always someone in the fields first thing in the morning until, until well past the sun going down. And we just haven't seen that at all this year.

Fraser: They just can't get going because of the, because of the weather. So it's, it's visually noticeable as well by the absence of, of activity. And I think locally here, it's, it's certainly a big concern because the, the local economy is so dependent on this.

Matt: It's going to be really difficult for your average consumer to disaggregate the inflationary impacts of different, uh, causes.

Matt: So, we've had Russia's invasion of the Ukraine, impact on gas supply, which has had knock on effect to all energy prices, which has impacted everything, right? So that, that has been a major driver of all prices. And, And that is recognized by your average consumer. What is maybe less recognized and less easy to pull apart is the climate inflationary pressures on food and how you pull them apart.

Matt: And then you look at other issues like Brexit and supply. We're about to have a whole load of other checks imposed in the UK around food and animals. And I think for the consumer, like, how do you communicate this? Well, we'll maybe talk a bit more about climate communication in a minute, but how do you communicate this?

Matt: Because without. communicating clearly and without demarcating what's causing what. Climate might just get swallowed up by this just morass of other inflationary pressures and people don't care about it in the same way that they probably should.

Fraser: I think the question isn't just how do you communicate it, the question is to what end?

Fraser: What is it that you're hoping to achieve by making this link clear? Because the link is critical and the link is important, um, but it's also, and this feeds into something we'll come on to shortly, it's also people are feeling the pressures of all of those things. All at the same time at this minute as well.

Fraser: So I think as well as thinking about sort of how do we draw those links, I do, I would argue that those links are becoming clearer, but it's what do we hope then happens as a result of making those links clearer? What action do we hope to spur on the back of this?

Becky: I think that's absolutely right. That's exactly what I was going to say.

Becky: Fraser is, you know, it's all well and good knowing something. And, uh, our little stats genius over in the corner there, uh, referring to you, Matt. Uh, but I do think the bigger challenge is, yeah. What do we do with that information? And more importantly, what are we asking people to do at their local level in their homes, in their communities to try and address and improve this for themselves, for their communities and for the country.

Matt: I think, so I think it's really important to relate to the public a reliable and easy to understand basis of evidence. So, you know, a factoid here or there, which, you know, it's not contested and easy to understand you have that, then you can kind of connect cause and effect. So, so this is happening, we know this is happening and it is impacting this over here, bringing it back.

Matt: As you said earlier, Fraser, before we recorded bringing it, not just from the macro to the micro to the personal. Okay becomes something that one can wrap their head and hands around that they really, truly understand it. And then, as you've just said, a solution associated with that. So you need to have this, these steps.

Matt: And the problem is that takes time. It takes a legitimacy. It's a relationship that an outlet or outlets build with its audience and the public. Um, and that can get disrupted by other noise and also not just, um. Uh, you know, noise that is set and targeted to disrupt for other reasons and interests, but just the noise of reality, like other stuff happens, other stuff becomes more of a priority and disrupts that dialogue.

Matt: I think comms. Climate, nature, real thorny issue because it ain't simple.

Becky: And I think the stuff where you can really experience it and see things tangibly directly yourselves are particularly powerful. And one thing that I, uh, I noticed that, so my husband and I were driving from where we live in Newquay to his folks place in Bobman, um, over the weekend, and he pointed out because a bug splattered onto our windshield.

Becky: I don't know if you actually pointed, it's happened. We just don't see this anymore. And, and it made me think back, like we actually used to, I remember driving around and you'd have to sort of clean it, get out and scrub your windshield afterwards. And now we just don't see that anymore. And I think that there was something very kind of powerful in that kind of experiential element of it and realizing, Oh yeah, I I recognize that I can see that I can feel it. I understand it, which was a, but I do have, you know, Matt in the kind of the whole notion of, of wanting to test your statistical prowess, um, a question for you

Matt: doing to me now, because I normally put you on the spot.

Becky: I know it feels, it feels quite nice actually to be the one with the, with all the numbers.

Becky: Um, so this actually a bit of Googling around, this is called the windshield phenomenon. This is not something that just me and my husband noticed, but it's widely acknowledged. And there have even been a couple of studies on it. So there was a study in Denmark and also a study in Kent. There were wider studies in the UK, but, uh, struggled with, uh, with elements of data.

Becky: But the study in Kent and the study in Denmark had similar ish results, looking at the change over time in terms of how many, uh, dead insects there were on car windshields. So my question to you, how many splats? So if we look, so we'll, we'll take the Kent study because it's a bit closer to home. Um, so they look at, Uh, splats in 2021 compared with 20, 2004.

Becky: So

Matt: how big's the wind script? So many questions, but what, what's the unit we're after?

Fraser: You're an academic man.

Fraser: I'm not after a

Becky: number per unit. I'm after a percentage decline between the two time periods.

Matt: Between 2021 and 2004. Oof. I think it's way more than half. And I'm gonna say, although 2001 would be still pretty low compared to what it would've been 20 years previous to that, uh, pesticides, natural habitat, habitat decline.

Matt: Um, I'm gonna, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say 50%

Becky: Fraser do you wanna jump on this bandwagon as well?

Fraser: Um, I'm, I'm gonna go lower. I'm gonna stick with my instinct. I'm gonna say 30%. Optimistically. 30 percent

Becky: fewer.

Fraser: Yeah.

Becky: So, so you're both way off. The decline has been 72%, 72 percent reduction.

Matt: So depressing.

Matt: And that's a 72 percent reduction on, I think on a very low baseline year anyway. And if you were to go back to 70s, 60s, and then you were to go back even further than that. I mean, one of the things Becky, so I'm, I'm taking the, we're lucky enough to be able to take the kids. uh, to France this year. So for my sins, I'm driving like a ridiculous distance to, to tell them that.

Matt: But, um, one of the things I'm most excited about is taking them to the French countryside where there are bugs and birds and animals. I remember, I'm very excited about that, man.

Matt: Yeah. I, I, one of my most sort of. Clearest memories of time I've spent in France is you sit somewhere, you know, if you're lucky enough to be down in the south or central, wherever it is, and you're just surrounded by these huge hornets,

Matt: know, but it's, it's a, it's a much less, um, A roaded ecosystem and there's plenty of evidence to back this up and the UK it's, it's bad and it's getting worse.

Matt: Yeah. Anyway, so we're probably straying into the world of rewilding and George Monbiot and Isabella tree. And I would love to talk about this much more, but. Okay, we've got two more topics we want to touch upon. We've probably done a bit of comms already, but we, this is, uh, as we record another week where the IPCC have come out and said the world is on fire, um, we need to do more.

Matt: There has been record or concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere now reach another record high. It's not good. It's not looking great. Um, I wanted to get your perspectives on how these messages should be relayed to the wider world. So we don't fall into this disillusionment trap, because I have to say, picked up the paper, read that.

Matt: And I didn't even read the stories particularly, cause I kind of know how they end and they're not great. And I, and I want, I was actually searching around for something else to gee me up and get me going and keep fighting the fight. So wait, what do we do here?

Becky: Think it's really challenging as well, because a lot of the, a lot of the narrative I see sort of focuses on like climate change and the stats and the figures rather than that, the sort of positive side around action.

Becky: And I think sometimes we can get trapped in our bubble. And I was reminded recently that actually, if you look in other places, and the US in particular, a large number of people still say they don't believe that climate change is happening. An even larger proportion say that they don't think people are responsible.

Becky: And an even bigger proportion think that they don't think they can do much to address it. And that it's really the role of, um, you know, larger organizations. And so I think focusing on those, like on those fundamental facts and expecting people to link the fact that these things are happening through to actions is just too many steps removed.

Becky: And that a lot of that communication really needs to focus on those practical things that, that can happen in local places where you can start to really feel that you are making a difference. Yeah,

Fraser: I think that local element is crucial, Becky, and it's something we've shouted about for, for a while, obviously on this podcast, but, but in general, the there's, I guess it's worth maybe making a distinction between, as you mentioned before, Matt, the sort of the micro and the macro at the macro we have.

Fraser: We have the stats, we have the figures, we have the headline news stories, and often they're very, very scary. But I think where change ultimately happens, where action ultimately comes from, is in those local, those personal, those community level conversations. For me, again, just, just in my experience working with, with communities on this periodically over the years, there is, there are, there are fewer, more effective ways to communicate a climate message or Sort of enlist someone to, to making climate, uh, not even a priority, but a concern in their life than someone that they know and trust delivering that message everyday conversations where you understand how this is impacting you in your house, in your pocket, in your, in your local place.

Fraser: And I think that that's one side of it is there's, there's a real need for that conduit from the high level down to how does this affect us? But also, where is, as Becky says, where are the opportunities here both for action, but also as we're making this transition, all the things that we need to do, how do we, how do we get our sort of feet under the table to make sure that we're not just averting the worst of this crisis, but making the most of it if we can be, if we can be as crass as that.

Matt: I think Fraser, you've, you've touched there upon the kind of social relations of climate communication. So, uh, we've done a lot of work about the social relations of, uh, energy retrofit for fuel, poor homes. So where that messaging comes from, who, who in particular, or it's not just necessarily a person, but an organization, um, that carries a lot of weight in people's minds.

Matt: It might be your husband, your wife, your daughter, your father, it could be a manager at a local football club or pastor, it could be, you, you fill the gaps, right? There's, there's a whole host of, of people who you either respect or, or don't respect and, and that their weight, um, they say really carries weight.

Matt: And if you can translate that messaging through people's own, um, perceived world, you know, their world. And though that messaging isn't just trusted, but also relates back to these local issues and local solutions. That for me is the jackpot. And I don't think we're doing that enough.

Becky: I think, um, another really overlooked, but critical actor are folks that are working in the culture sector. And so we, uh, we've redone have just been doing some, uh, some work with Welsh government on this, looking at in Wales, the role of the culture sector and what's come through so strongly is the power that these organizations have to create connections with people in local places by.

Becky: Stepping away from kind of facts and figures and into stories and narratives and bringing people together through activities where it becomes a very visceral experience. And so all of a sudden they are really connected to this issue and then you start, you have a basis then from which to drive action.

Fraser: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's critical. And I think an overarching point is that an expert, an academic, whether nationally or someone, you know, parachuting into a community to talk about this stuff will never be met with the same welcome and will never have the same impact, ultimately, as, you know, trusted local actors, sort of champions, people who care about it.

Fraser: And I think that a broader point here is there is And in all of this, whatever level we're having the discussion, there is no substitute for sincerity, authenticity, and ultimately trust, which these for me are the three key pillars of communicating these things effectively.

Matt: So, so that's two episodes we need to do.

Matt: I think one food and the fragility of our supply chain. The other one is, is nature and climate comms. But today's episode, before we get stuck in to, uh, rubbish, absolute rubbish, which is, uh, uh, waste and how we reduce really, it's not just about reducing waste, but by extension, reducing consumption. And the demand for additional consumption about reuse.

Matt: Um, just a quick note, maybe from one from you both, there was a stat we had last week about how plastic emissions could triple to one fifth of the Earth's carbon budget. Why do you think this topic is important in the context of not just Sustainable development, the climate in particular, you know, is this worthy of debating?

Matt: What do you hope to hear today?

Fraser: So it's, to be honest, it's something that I want to learn more about. We've known for a long time about the impact of plastics, but I think what, something that I never realized is just how much plastic is in everything from big you know, obvious plastic containers, things like that down to like microplastics and it's everywhere.

Fraser: There's so much of it everywhere. It's unavoidable. I'd also like to hold my hands up and say that I am really bad at this. The whole re re reuse, recycle. I've got family members, I've got friends who are amazing at it and who have all the little tips and tricks and ways to do it. I think there's there's more, there's, there's, there's more to it that I definitely want to understand and I think we'd all benefit from, from understanding it a bit more.

Becky: Yeah, and I think just, it can be so hard to avoid plastic sometimes and I, and I find this, um, there's a really important dimension here, I think, between kind of individual action, and then the context in which that action is happening. And so my kids have actually been learning a bit about this at school.

Becky: And now when we go to the supermarkets, you know, they're like, don't buy the stuff in plastic. And, and for some things that That works well and I can make that choice. But for other things, it's always in plastic. There isn't a plastic free option sometimes, apart from maybe not to purchase it. So I do find that there is this kind of challenge between what we can do individually and where we take that versus what we need to sort of put pressure on, on larger organizations to change.

Becky: And so I'm really hoping that we can hear a little bit about both dimensions of this.

Matt: Yeah. It's a really interesting point that how do you pressure a giant supermarket supply chain to go low plastic? You don't know where do you prod and push and nudge as a consumer? Uh, often you vote with your wallet, right?

Matt: But that's quite challenging. If 99 percent of the outlets are selling the same thing. And there's also something that I'd maybe like to get into is about the tension between, um, You know, reuse and reducing and recycling and other environmental priorities. So we've talked about food, right? A lot of plastic is about wrapping up food.

Matt: You take the cute, the humble cucumber, for instance, you'd take the plastic packaging off of that and that will degrade super quickly, particularly if it's out fridge, but you know, a lot of this is designed to extend the life cycle of these kind of high carbon. So that's not me playing devil's advocate a little bit.

Matt: I hate waste. I, I avoid plastic wherever possible, but it's everywhere. it's downstairs in my kitchen, it's spilling out in there and everywhere and uh, I want to know more. So why don't we bring them in and they can teach us a thing or two.

Fraser: So lots to talk about and I'm sure we ourselves can learn a thing or two today.

Fraser: Let's bring in the guests.

Jo: Hi my name's Jo Hartga I run the Southside Tool Library which is based on a high street in the south side of Glasgow.

Samantha: Hi I'm Sam Moir, I'm the reuse and prevention manager at Zero Waste Scotland and I'm also the founder of Meric Rent in Glasgow Southside.

Matt: So a very warm local zero. Welcome to you, Sam and Jo.

Matt: It's fantastic to have you here. We have wanted to do an episode on waste and particularly reduction of consumption and waste reuse for a very, very long time. So it's great to have you both here. So I just wonder for our listeners, just to set the scene around the importance of reuse and reduction, talking a little bit about circular economy and where these issues of reuse and reduction fit.

Matt: Sam, I just wonder whether you could provide us with some of the basic principles. What is a circular economy? What do we mean by reduction and reuse, please?

Samantha: Yeah, well, the easiest way to think of it is that where we are currently, and we currently live in what we call a linear economy. So we make products, we use them for a relatively short space of time, sometimes once, sometimes not even at all, and then we dispose of them.

Samantha: So that's. It's in the system, it's back out again, and we don't really think about where those materials or products come from, or indeed where they go to at the other end, which is a crucial point that I'm sure we'll get onto later. So in a circular economy, we want to, we want to break that cycle. We want to make sure that we are reducing the consumption, so we're not making as much product.

Samantha: Um, in the beginning, um, it's just not sustainable to be continuously using raw materials, uh, to make new things, especially if we're not using them for that, for that long. So what we want to do is, like I say, reduce by not buying things at all, or leasing or sharing. We need to keep those products in use for longer by repairing them or reusing them.

Samantha: And then at the end of life, we're looking to refurbish. re manufacture, so make it into something new, recycle, and we can make all these new products which go back into the system. So you can picture this circle and that's why we call it a circular economy.

Matt: And that's really important because I think for your average person, average householder, recycling is on the tip of their tongue.

Matt: It's something I think most people do every day, every week when the bins are out, but actually there is a hierarchy here. Is there not in terms of what we should be looking to do first? So just maybe just to spell that out to our our listeners. Um, yeah, where recycling fits into that.

Samantha: Yeah, absolutely. So again, if you think about that linear system, we bring, we buy things, we bring them home, we use them, we put them in the recycling bin and out it goes.

Samantha: And we don't really think about where it's come from or where it's going after our use. Whereas in a circular system, you really should be thinking about what you're buying in the first place. What is it you're bringing into your house? Did you need to bring it into your house at all in the first place?

Samantha: Is it something that can be repaired? Are you going to use it for a long time? And then think about what's going to happen to it at the end. Um, are you willing to repair that to use it again, to pass on? Um, I think the system that we've set up at the moment and because people are very used to recycling, it means that we've taken away that thought process and that people aren't necessarily needing to make many decisions because it's easy just to put it in the recycling bin.

Samantha: We've all got that notion now, or I'll just take it to the charity shop and someone else will deal with it. But this new system, It really needs everyone to think a little bit more deeply about the stuff that we're using and consuming.

Matt: And the legacy of these, you know, of this waste, which is really interesting.

Fraser: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So how important is reducing our consumption and waste in the context of climate crisis? Why should we care?

Samantha: I mean, it's hugely important. Um, Zero Waste Scotland did a study, a couple of years ago now, I think, which calculated that 80 percent of our carbon footprint in Scotland comes from the stuff that we buy.

Samantha: And that was a pretty huge figure, and it's actually pretty surprising. Um, Like I say, people are used to just buying what they want, using it and checking it out. But a lot of the emissions in this consumption are things that we don't see. We're not necessarily seeing, you know, the extraction of the raw materials, the energy that's used in the manufacturing process, the water that's wasted.

Samantha: We're transporting stuff halfway around the world. We're not seeing all of that, but it all adds up. And it means that the stuff that we buy is actually the most important thing in reducing carbon emissions. And I know that everyone does understand the problem of the climate crisis that we've got. And we talk a lot about air travel or, um, organic foods, but we also need to really tackle, Consumption because that's the biggest player in all of this

Matt: billion dollar trillion dollar question.

Matt: How can we reduce our consumption? Um, and it's not just our consumption It's our waste with a particular focus on reuse and sharing and also just reducing that need because I think most people can get their head around recycling now took it took a while, but our recycling rates are pretty good now in the uk Not so sure people would know how to do Uh the former in terms of reduction and reuse You

Samantha: Yeah, that's right.

Samantha: And there's definitely more awareness. I know that through Meri Ground as well. You know, the number of people that shop in Meri Ground, which is a secondhand shop for children's goods, is just increasing every year. There's about 10, 000 people now that come through the shop every year looking to buy secondhand children's clothes.

Samantha: So there's something about making it easy for people, making it accessible. Um, And as soon as you give that opportunity to people to buy something secondhand, and they have a good experience, then the next time they think about buying something secondhand is going to be their first choice or leasing, sharing.

Samantha: So long as we can make that an easy option for people.

Matt: So, I mean, as I said, before we started recording, both my kids were essentially kitted out by Merry Go Round and Southside. So we went down there, had twins. So it was like double trouble. Um, you know, we needed. We could not afford even if we wanted to, we couldn't afford to buy everything new.

Matt: So it was a financial element to this, but of course it was an environmental element to this. So we'll maybe talk a bit more about merry go round and we know kids stuff is expensive, but Jo I wanted to bring you in here because you are the lead for the Southside tool library, which is connected to Southseeds.

Matt: Southseeds is an organization that I've very much affiliated with over the past few years, and I know the fantastic work it does. Could you tell us a little bit more about. What the tool library does and how it fits into that mold around reduce, reuse, and also just broader sharing.

Jo: Yeah. So, um, we kind of started the tool library in 2018.

Jo: Um, cause people were just asking us to borrow things like ladders and garden equipment, which we had anyway, cause we have a community gardening project. Um, and that was quite, that was just increasing, increasing. We were like, wow. What can we do? We need to kind of formalize this a bit, a bit more. Um, so we set up the Southside tool library, um, which has now kind of morphed into tools are a big proportion of it, but, um, we have a lot of non tool items as well.

Jo: Um, so we're focusing on. Um, things that people who can't necessarily do DIY or gardening can borrow as well. Um,

Matt: me, me basically,

Jo: or things that people that rent as well, you know, they're not able to make changes in their home. So things like sewing machines and camping equipment we have now and e bikes as well.

Jo: Um, you know, if you're only going to use it once or twice, why, why would you buy that when you can borrow it, um, at an affordable price, you know? So.

Matt: And I guess a classic case is like the orbital sander, right? You don't, you know, 300 quid, you're going to use it. Well, I mean, how many times have you used yours, Fraser?

Matt: You know, if you own one, so these extremely powerful and extremely expensive tools, very, very bespoke, you might need them once in a blue moon,

Fraser: right? We, we ended up sort of falling into a family tool library. All our family are relatively handy. So myself, my uncles and my, my grandfather, um, realized that we were just spending inordinate, inordinate amounts of money on stuff that like you say, was getting used once.

Fraser: And then someone who lives, you know, 10 minutes down the road was also buying the same thing for the same one job. Once a year, maybe if you're lucky. Um, I would say that I've got one uncle in particular who's really bad at hoarding all of the tools. I think he's a little bit tighter than the rest of us.

Matt: And I know Jo I mean, I know the, the, um, the South side, well, uh, the area where you are South side, Victorian, typically quite high, high density housing, um, tenements. So you, you've got people who are living in essentially four, three, four stories high, a real mix, I would say of. It certainly in our patch of, of people who are maybe sort of young professionals, maybe you put in the kind of middle class category, um, and others who are maybe living minimum wage in, in, in sort of private rental accommodation.

Matt: Um, so a real mix of audience, but I know the tool library, some of the stats in terms of usage have just boomed over COVID. Then we had the cost of living crisis. So who are your audience and why are they growing?

Jo: Yeah, so, um, we, we try and make the tool library accessible for everyone from all walks of life.

Jo: Um, and that's definitely what we've seen. We see all different kinds of people coming in and for all different kinds of reasons. Um, we offer like, um, We offer a free membership for people who are on low income. So that kind of, uh, helps accessibility from a, from a financial point of view. And yeah, you're right.

Jo: Um, usage has massively increased. We're approaching 6, 000 loans since 2018. So we're massively increasing the lifetime. Of each item, you know, um, items that have been donated and might have been used once or twice and now being used 40 times, um, which is potentially replacing, you know, new items that might have been purchased otherwise.

Matt: Fantastic. And the tool library is something I keep meaning to sign up to. And this is the year I'm going to do it because I need, I can't be going to be in queue and shelling out for what I need. So you're going to see my face shortly. Um, yeah. So Sam, merry go round. Could you tell us a bit more about, um, Why you established it, what it's, I guess it's mission statement was from the outset and how it's evolved, like the type of people who are coming in, the number of people coming in.

Matt: Just give us a flavor of what it's doing and why.

Samantha: So I set it up in, uh, just after my son was born. Um, it's been going now for 12 years and I wanted to buy secondhand items. When I was pregnant and really the only way to do it was to go to one of these sales that only happened once every few months and 3000 people queued for hours and you had to go and buy something out of a pile.

Samantha: And I thought there's a better way of doing this. So I decided they needed to be a shop. I'd never done that sort of thing before, but the whole essence of it is that we want to persuade people to buy secondhand before they think about buying new. And when the shop first opened, I mean, it was instantly popular because like you said, children's goods are, they're expensive and they're not in the stuff for very long at all.

Samantha: The only, there's a couple of things that we don't take just for safety reasons, but other than that, you can get completely kitted out from maternity stage. So we have maternity clothes as well. support for pregnant women, uh, all the way through to age five. So you can come and get everything. At first I would say that people were, some people were a little bit nervous about buying secondhand, especially as a present for someone.

Samantha: And we've completely blown that out of the water. And that's the big thing for me. That was the big indicator. We used to have a, a shelving unit in the corner of like local handmade goods that if somebody wanted to buy a present for someone who'd had a baby, they could buy a nice handmade hat or something.

Samantha: And now people are really joyfully, especially and specifically buying secondhand for their friend who's had a baby. And they want us to put a leaflet inside. They want the bag with the stamp on it. They want this person to know that they've happily bought it secondhand and that they're sharing that message.

Samantha: And I think that's huge. So we've just shifted that perception of secondhand and we've shifted that behavior.

Matt: I think that's really interesting because I recognize the stigma around buying secondhand or third, let's call it preloved or used. Um, I think that changed a lot after the financial crisis. That was part one of the financial crisis trilogy, uh, back in 2008.

Matt: Um, And you saw a boom there in charity shops. So, you know, on, on every high street, they were there. And then I think there's been a change again in the cost of living crisis where, um, people just can't afford new. And I'd like maybe just for you both to reflect on how that stigma has changed and where we are now with it, but also about the sustainability.

Matt: And I'm not talking environmentally, I'm kind of talking in terms of. Um, continuing, uh, this model of. The model of buying used or pre loved only works if somebody is able to afford, afford it new at some point. And I don't know that for me, there's a, there's a bit of a cognitive dissonance between the value of the model, but you also need the people to donate and have it new.

Matt: So anybody want to chip in on that?

Samantha: Yeah, for me it's about volume though. The amount of stock that we get in and the donations, the amount of baby stuff that is already out there, you would literally need to buy no more ever. And yes, stuff gets used, but again, you can repurpose it, you can re manufacture it, you can upcycle it to put it back into the system.

Samantha: So the fact that there are still people buying new baby stuff, Children's goods, especially in Glasgow when we exist, just kind of drives me bonkers. Um, it's just that shift, isn't it? Of mindset that is required. Um, you can get this stuff and a lot of the stuff that we have in the shop has maybe been used once and a huge amount of it has not been used at all.

Samantha: It's been bought as gifts. Um, so there's, there's a lot that I could say about stigma and some people still thinking that that's. Um, if somebody has a baby, you want to rush to the shop and buy something cute with tags on it, it's brand new, um, and give it in a nice bag. And a lot of that stuff just comes straight to us because it's the wrong size.

Samantha: It's not what somebody actually wanted. Um, And someone else can get it. And I

Matt: look, I know Fraser's going to jump in on this, but I just wanted to reflect that back to Jo because we're talking about two different types of purchase here. We're talking in the one hand about children's clothes and purchases for newborns or toddlers and birthday presents.

Matt: On the other hand, we're talking about orbital Sanders and sores and, um, Do you recognize that same stigma, Jo? Or is it, or does it come in a different?

Jo: Uh, I think people are obviously like, they want to be reassured that the items that they're borrowing are safe and clean. Um, there's definitely not the same stigma.

Jo: Um, In terms of, like, getting second hand clothing, especially children's clothing, um, that I've seen anyway, um, I think that's, those are people's priorities, that things are safe and things are clean, and that we, we, we have a, a tool servicing technician that checks, uh, you know, stuff for electrical safety and, um, make sure everything works as it should.

Jo: So hopefully we've kind of like fulfilled that, that part of it. One of the big barriers for us is just awareness. You know, people becoming aware of the concept of borrowing and the fact that we exist. So, you know, we've got a lot of people saying it just makes sense. Why would you, why would you buy if you're only using it one or two times?

Fraser: Is there a, and I'll ask this to Sam first and then, and then Joe to follow up. Is there a socioeconomic dimension to this? Does everyone consume and waste stuff? equally? Does everyone access your services equally?

Samantha: It's not equal, but it's probably not equal in the way that you would first imagine. Um, it's fair to say we have a certain demographic in the south side of Glasgow that use Merry-go-round currently, and we try really hard to make sure that people on lower incomes, um, are aware of our shop.

Samantha: Awareness, like Joe says, is really huge. Um, and we do that in a slightly different way. So we give out free packs as well through agencies. So we work with over a hundred agencies in Glasgow to make sure that there's items that are going to families that need it. And through that actually, you know, people become aware of the low cost nature of what we do.

Samantha: But I would say that the majority of people shop with us, yes, to save money, but also for that environmental, local, community impact. That's huge, um, for Merry-go-round as well. And I think, especially after COVID, we had it before, but especially after COVID, people are much more likely to shop local to support community ventures, um, and want to, are much more aware of the environmental issues as well of purchasing and how things are transported around the world.

Samantha: This whole experience of sharing something, um, lending something, buying something secondhand has got to be as accessible and easy as doing it new. When you have something like an online retailer where you could just buy something that arrives tomorrow, that's what we're up against, and that's really challenging.

Samantha: Um, but that's where all those additional things are really important, like the community aspect, the social aspect, and people understanding that if they Shop locally they're helping a whole bunch of other things to happen. Like they're creating local jobs and there's volunteering opportunities. All of that is really important.

Samantha: And more and more people are really aware of that. You know, they want to support that kind of local enterprise rather than support in big business.

Matt: Yeah. So I think there's a, there's a broader point here about what the wider world, however, whoever you want to put into that category could do to support your initiatives.

Matt: So, You know, what, what barriers you coming up against these might be policy. There might be financial, uh, we've talked a bit about culture, right. But, you know, we've got a. A general election coming up, um, UK, potentially another one in the offing for Scotland. What might they do to unlock this for you? You know, to make, I'm going to go to Jo uh, here, please.

Matt: I think, you know, what, what, what are you looking for to help you kick on to the next level?

Jo: Yeah. I think Sam's totally hit the nail on the head in terms of consumption is too easy. You know, if we want to encourage, um, borrowing and buying secondhand, reducing consumption, we need to make it harder and less comfortable to consume.

Jo: So anything we can do to disincentivize purchasing new is, would be a good thing, you know, so things like increasing costs for producers, which might mean they'll pass it on to consumers, which will mean that hopefully higher purchase costs would increase. Most people's motivation to borrow or buy secondhand, you know, whole regulations around making stuff more repairable when it is produced new, extending the lifetime of products as well, um, just to kind of force an increase in the product's quality.

Jo: And that will just kind of help to even the balance a bit more between these kind of community based, um, item libraries and. um, secondhand shops, um, against the mainstream kind of high carbon consuming businesses. Um, the balance is just totally uneven at the moment. And there's, you know, we need, we need that balance to be corrected a bit more.

Fraser: So how do your respective programs, how do you plan to evolve them in the future? What's the, what's, what's the plan going forward? We start with Sam.

Samantha: Well, actually, we're going to venture into the world of renting. Uh, we recently just got some, uh, some money through a tourism grant, and we're going to set up a travel rental business because we were constantly getting asked, you know, you don't want to buy.

Samantha: A brand new buggy for going on holiday, for example, or they just wanted to use something for a short period of time. And because our customers now have made that shift to, I don't want to buy a new thing if I'm not going to use it for that long. Um, we've been asked about it for a long time. And so we've decided that that's what we're going to do.

Samantha: So it's going to be a business where you can rent anything for going away on holiday or people coming into Glasgow can rent the things that they need for when they're here. Like a high chair or a travel coat or a summer buggy, because we have great summers here.

Matt: Or a milk machine, which I know, we needed that for like nine months, used it like eight times a day and then it never got used again.

Samantha: Yeah, exactly. And then hopefully we can work more closely with the tool library as well, which is literally just around the corner from us. So we're just going to do a children's goods rental for now.

Fraser: And Jo, what's the future plan for the tool library?

Jo: We would just like to grow our membership really. Um, every new person that joins represents potentially represents an item that hasn't been purchased new, which is a big driver.

Jo: Um, so yeah, growing our membership, like making more people aware of us, um, in the area and kind of branching out our inventory as well. So like I said before, moving from. Just tools to like, um, items that everyone can borrow, even if you're not able to do DIY and you're renting your space. Um, so yeah, whether it's camping equipment or we've got a projector, for example, but you know, speakers and stuff like that.

Matt: You've also got a thermal imaging camera. Is that right?

Jo: Yes, we've got a thermal imaging camera. So if you feel like your home is drafty and you're wanting to find out where the drafts are and where you're losing heat, you can use the thermal imaging camera.

Matt: Fantastic. I mean, I'm a little bit nervous about renting the thermal camera because I'm just going to see how much work there is to do, but it is on my list for this winter.

Matt: So look, how about we finish on this? If you could both offer at least one piece of advice to our listeners to help them reduce their waste through reducing consumption or increasing reuse, um, to really just crunch that consumption and waste, what would it be? What could, what could everybody start to do tomorrow or even today?

Samantha: For me, I always answer this question with just every decision is an opportunity. So every time you go to do something, whether it's, you know, to buy something or to dispose of something, you don't have to look at everything that you're doing, but just look at that one occasion. What are my options? Do I need to buy this thing?

Samantha: Is it a possibility of leasing it instead? Can I ask a friend for it? Can I share it? Could I make it? Um, the answer might not be yes every time, but every time you start to make those decisions, the more it becomes a habit and then you can change everything that you do, but one step at a time is always my advice.

Jo: Um, I would definitely recommend looking up your local equipment library, um, sharing library. You can get all sorts of Libraries, obviously you've got your libraries for books, but there's also musical instrument libraries as one in Glasgow as well. Um, so anytime you feel like you want to buy something or you need to buy something, look up your local equipment library and join that and borrow instead of buying.

Matt: And is, is there any way that people could do that regardless of, we're assuming the UK audience here, but this will be international, right? This isn't just a thing that we do in Britain, but is there a website that maybe listsies that people could could get onto and have a look.

Samantha: There actually is in Scotland.

Samantha: So, uh, Zero Waste Scotland, uh, helped to set up something called the Share and Repair Network, uh, and it shows you all of the sharing libraries. We have an ambition to have 100, uh, sharing libraries or repair, uh, facilities in Scotland, and we're up at 66 already. So there's. There's loads to do in Scotland already, so you can Google that.

Matt: Fantastic. Well, to you both. Plenty of homework for us to do, plenty of homework for our listeners, plenty of homework for the policy makers and politicians out there. So, thank you very much. How fascinating. I hope to have you back again soon.

Samantha: Thank you.

Fraser: Big thanks to Jo and Sam. You'll find all the relevant links to find out more in the show notes for this episode.

Matt: So you've been listening to local zero. If you've enjoyed the pod, here are some quick things you can do to really help get our name out there. First, please rate local zero, wherever you listen, five stars, of course, to find and connect with us on LinkedIn. And three, if you listen on Apple podcasts, leave a quick review to help drive us charts and reach more like minded people.

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Fraser: But for now, for listening and goodbye. Bye bye. Bye. Produced

Fraser: by Bespoken Media.